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Zen 4-3-2-2 Draft no12.



 
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Zen 4-3-2-2 Draft no12. Reply with quote

So I got all my essays finished, first one is back and graded got a 2:1 (4% off first) which im happy with for a first essay. This gives me a little more time for magic before i start revision:< so I hit the 4-3-2-2 que and ended up winning the draft with a blue black control deck. What in Zendikar block really?

Event #: 779479
Time: 12/12/2009 10:15:53 PM
Players:
Twister
Haineken
--> ElementalMox
teddy3027
LLaz
Pilloz
ahotza
tihayman

------ ZEN ------

Pack 1 pick 1:
Kor Skyfisher
Spell Pierce
Piranha Marsh
Summoner's Bane
Forest
Nimbus Wings
Kor Duelist
--> Sphinx of Lost Truths
Relic Crush
Mindless Null
Timbermaw Larva
Noble Vestige
Into the Roil
Magma Rift
Shepherd of the Lost

Always nice to open on a bomb particular in blue as so many people say its bad but personally i love it.

Pack 1 pick 2:
Highland Berserker
Hedron Scrabbler
Mold Shambler
Spreading Seas
Arrow Volley Trap
Seismic Shudder
Greenweaver Druid
Mold Shambler (FOIL)
Whiplash Trap
Seascape Aerialist
Reckless Scholar
Island
Ondu Cleric
--> Disfigure

I loathe blue black but the disfigure is so much better than anything else, do not have to play either of these picks anyway

Pack 1 pick 3:
Blood Seeker
Disfigure
Reckless Scholar
Mold Shambler
Kabira Crossroads
--> Living Tsunami
Swamp
Narrow Escape
Quest for the Gravelord
Feast of Blood
Nissa's Chosen
Whiplash Trap
Goblin Shortcutter

Well this is a gift, passing another disfigure I think some peeps may disagree with this pick but tsunmai is a house and Id much rather be blue than black, I am strange I know.

Pack 1 pick 4:
Kraken Hatchling
Highland Berserker
Turntimber Grove
Desecrated Earth
Primal Bellow
Mountain
Sky Ruin Drake
Seismic Shudder
Emeria, the Sky Ruin
Unstable Footing
--> Merfolk Seastalkers
Nimana Sell-Sword

Another awsome blue uncommon just got to hope no one switches into blue if it keeps coming like this, another good black card shipped down the line in sell sword

Pack 1 pick 5:
Goblin War Paint
Lethargy Trap
Bloodghast
Goblin Bushwhacker
Akoum Refuge
Forest
Vampire Lacerator
Ior Ruin Expedition
Tanglesap
--> Guul Draz Vampire
Blood Seeker

What I did not rare draft the 1 tix card, well its not good on my manabase and although my pick is going to be black after deep consideration i settled on the gruul daz as i think its a card i underate so i want to play with it more see if my suspicion is correct.

Pack 1 pick 6:
Shieldmate's Blessing
Shoal Serpent
Nimbus Wings
Landbind Ritual
Forest
Vines of Vastwood
Khalni Heart Expedition
--> Soul Stair Expedition
Shatterskull Giant
Trapfinder's Trick

Tempted to take the vines as its the best card but we already have so many awsome creatures that I liked the expedition

Pack 1 pick 7:
Pillarfield Ox
Island
Desecrated Earth
Ruinous Minotaur
Caller of Gales
Blade of the Bloodchief
--> Kraken Hatchling
Paralyzing Grasp
Brave the Elements

My deck really needs early defence, so i prefer hatchling to grasp as often the damage is already done by the time u get to use grasp

Pack 1 pick 8:
Tempest Owl
Kazandu Refuge
Mindless Null
Sunspring Expedition
--> Giant Scorpion
Noble Vestige
Soul Stair Expedition
Island

More good defense

Pack 1 pick 9:
Spell Pierce
Piranha Marsh
Forest
Kor Duelist
Relic Crush
--> Mindless Null
Noble Vestige

Pack 1 pick 10:
Hedron Scrabbler
Spreading Seas
Seismic Shudder
Seascape Aerialist
--> Reckless Scholar
Island

Pack 1 pick 11:
--> Blood Seeker
Kabira Crossroads
Swamp
Narrow Escape
Feast of Blood

Very pleased with this

Pack 1 pick 12:
Turntimber Grove
Desecrated Earth
Mountain
--> Seismic Shudder

Pack 1 pick 13:
Lethargy Trap
Forest
--> Tanglesap

Pack 1 pick 14:
Forest
--> Trapfinder's Trick

Pack 1 pick 15:
--> Island

------ ZEN ------

Pack 2 pick 1:
--> Lotus Cobra
Cobra Trap
Seascape Aerialist
Slaughter Cry
Kor Outfitter
Mind Sludge
Island
Torch Slinger
Umara Raptor
Scythe Tiger
Steppe Lynx
Beast Hunt
Vampire Lacerator
Trapfinder's Trick
Bog Tatters

12 tix draft virtually paid for, win round 1 and ive made a good profit Smile

Pack 2 pick 2:
Expedition Map
Tempest Owl
Hedron Scrabbler
Tuktuk Grunts
Plains
Harrow
Steppe Lynx
Scythe Tiger
--> Guul Draz Specter
Graypelt Refuge
Slaughter Cry
Mire Blight
Zektar Shrine Expedition
Quest for Ancient Secrets

My 4 drop slot is looking saturated already but this card is so strong and there is little else for me

Pack 2 pick 3:
--> Windrider Eel
Zendikar Farguide
Trapfinder's Trick
Soul Stair Expedition
Khalni Heart Expedition (FOIL)
Forest
Shieldmate's Blessing
Khalni Gem
Khalni Heart Expedition
Shatterskull Giant
Savage Silhouette
Nimbus Wings
Quest for the Holy Relic

More good 4 drops what i really want is raptors and terns and marudaers now though I have the power already

Pack 2 pick 4:
Slaughter Cry (FOIL)
Caravan Hurda
Steppe Lynx
--> Living Tsunami
Swamp
Ior Ruin Expedition
Narrow Escape
Guul Draz Vampire
Turntimber Grove
Oran-Rief Recluse
Torch Slinger
Akoum Refuge

This is you have read my early drafts is a problem i always find with blue black you end up with a million 4 drops as the combination just has so many good 4 drop spells

Pack 2 pick 5:
--> Nimbus Wings
Relic Crush
Noble Vestige
Archmage Ascension
Mindless Null
Cobra Trap
Seascape Aerialist
Spell Pierce
Island
Piranha Marsh
Tempest Owl

Little here for me did not want to play vs

Pack 2 pick 6:
Adventuring Gear
Cliff Threader
Runeflare Trap
Heartstabber Mosquito
Summoner's Bane
Spidersilk Net
Plains
Windrider Eel
Mold Shambler
--> Welkin Tern

So So happy about this was worried i was going to see none

Pack 2 pick 7:
--> Spire Barrage
Savage Silhouette
Primal Bellow
Blood Tribute
Forest
Steppe Lynx
Windrider Eel
Hagra Crocodile
Teetering Peaks

Okay at this point,k some picks may seem weird as I was foolishly attempting to help 2 friends with uni stuff at the same time as drafting, well they msged me whilst i was drafting and i responded and so some picks i timed out on like this one

Pack 2 pick 8:
--> Shatterskull Giant
Sejiri Refuge
Vines of Vastwood
Goblin Bushwhacker
Tanglesap
Lethargy Trap
Mountain
Windborne Charge

Pack 2 pick 9:
Cobra Trap
Slaughter Cry
--> Kor Outfitter
Island
Scythe Tiger
Beast Hunt
Trapfinder's Trick

Pack 2 pick 10:
--> Expedition Map
Hedron Scrabbler
Plains
Scythe Tiger
Mire Blight
Quest for Ancient Secrets

Pack 2 pick 11:
--> Trapfinder's Trick
Forest
Khalni Heart Expedition
Nimbus Wings
Quest for the Holy Relic

Pack 2 pick 12:
--> Caravan Hurda
Swamp
Narrow Escape
Turntimber Grove

Pack 2 pick 13:
--> Relic Crush
Noble Vestige
Island

Pack 2 pick 14:
Runeflare Trap
--> Plains

------ ZEN ------

Pack 3 pick 1:
Kor Skyfisher
Blood Seeker
Whiplash Trap
Goblin Shortcutter
Pitfall Trap
Blood Tribute
--> Disfigure
Teetering Peaks
Mold Shambler
Caller of Gales
Spidersilk Net (FOIL)
Merfolk Wayfinder
Tanglesap
Greenweaver Druid
Swamp

Very pleased about this as an open, as early action is what this deck needs it already has the power

Pack 3 pick 2:
Mountain
Goblin Bushwhacker
Hedron Scrabbler
Quest for the Gemblades
Baloth Woodcrasher
Feast of Blood
Kor Sanctifiers
Seismic Shudder
Nissa's Chosen
Spreading Seas
--> Heartstabber Mosquito
Oran-Rief Survivalist
Spidersilk Net
Ondu Cleric

Im a little thin on playables so can not hate the woodcrasher the seas will probably table so although mosquito is heavy casting cost if fits the deck well so its my pick.

Pack 3 pick 3:
Kabira Crossroads
Cliff Threader
Quest for Pure Flame
--> Vampire Lacerator
Teetering Peaks
Trailblazer's Boots
Hagra Crocodile
Kor Hookmaster
Mold Shambler
Windrider Eel
Vampire Hexmage
Forest
Soaring Seacliff

Really do not need anymore 4 drops, the hexmage is going to be hard to cast turn 2 so i went with lacerator

Pack 3 pick 4:
Territorial Baloth
Piranha Marsh
Torch Slinger
Ravenous Trap
Timbermaw Larva
--> Jwar Isle Refuge
Plains
Kor Skyfisher
Bladetusk Boar
Crypt Ripper
Vastwood Gorger
Soaring Seacliff

Fixing better than yet another 4 drop

Pack 3 pick 5:
Vampire's Bite
Pillarfield Ox
Stonework Puma
Trapfinder's Trick
Needlebite Trap
Ruinous Minotaur
--> Hideous End
Greenweaver Druid (FOIL)
Scythe Tiger
Swamp
Paralyzing Grasp

Awsome late hideous end Smile

Pack 3 pick 6:
Hagra Crocodile
Caller of Gales
Goblin War Paint
Mind Sludge
Teetering Peaks
Swamp
Kor Duelist
--> Vampire Hexmage
Kabira Crossroads
Narrow Escape

Even if its hard to cast its a bit easier now i have refuge

Pack 3 pick 7:
Soaring Seacliff
Expedition Map
Crypt Ripper
Carnage Altar
--> Spreading Seas
Mountain
Lethargy Trap
Guul Draz Vampire
Goblin Bushwhacker

One thing you can almost gurantee about 4-3-2-2 someone at the table will be making a horrible splash and playing a terrible mana base, in fact there were 2 decks like this at this table.

Pack 3 pick 8:
Expedition Map
Feast of Blood
Hagra Crocodile
Mountain
Savage Silhouette
--> Goblin Ruinblaster
Runeflare Trap
Teetering Peaks

timed again

Pack 3 pick 9:
Blood Tribute
Caller of Gales
Spidersilk Net (FOIL)
--> Merfolk Wayfinder
Tanglesap
Greenweaver Druid
Swamp

I wound up playing him again and he was even more rubbish than the last time I played him

Pack 3 pick 10:
Mountain
Hedron Scrabbler
Seismic Shudder
--> Spreading Seas
Spidersilk Net
Ondu Cleric

Watch out awfull splashes here i come

Pack 3 pick 11:
Kabira Crossroads
Quest for Pure Flame
--> Hagra Crocodile
Forest
Soaring Seacliff

Yet another 4 drop

Pack 3 pick 12:
--> Piranha Marsh
Ravenous Trap
Plains
Soaring Seacliff

Pack 3 pick 13:
--> Trapfinder's Trick
Scythe Tiger
Swamp

Pack 3 pick 14:
--> Caller of Gales
Swamp

Pack 3 pick 15:
--> Mountain

The deck

2 disfigure
1 soul stair expedition
1 gruul draz vampire
1 kraken hatchling
1 vampire lacerator
2 spreading seas
1 blood seeker
1 vampire hexmage
1 welkin tern
1 hideous end
1 giant scorpion
1 merfolk wayfinder
1 reckless scholar
1 druul draz spectre
1 heartstabber mosquito
2 living tsunami
1 merfolk seastalkers
1 windrider eel
1 sphinx of the lost truths
1 Jwar Isle refuge
9 island
8 swamp

Feedback apreciated.
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Conkisstador



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lethargy trap is amazing at 13th and you passed it for tanglesap Smile

it's liek ASKING them to fight you for blue
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ik
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At FNM last night in a draft I lost to Lethargy Trap into Tanglesap. FML.
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Zapgaze
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ik wrote:
At FNM last night in a draft I lost to Lethargy Trap into Tanglesap. FML.


At FNM last night, I broke the lotto probability.
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ik
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zapgaze wrote:
ik wrote:
At FNM last night in a draft I lost to Lethargy Trap into Tanglesap. FML.


At FNM last night, I broke the lotto probability.


Pics or it didn't happen. Wink
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cmc
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

propability*
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this has been really insightfull, I guess thanks conk.
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dv8r



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have time for a walkthrough today

p1p5
don't like this pick at all, bloodghast, refuge, lacerator are all better picks, in ub (you ARE going to be blue, and probably base blue), this won't be turned on unless you are already winning. I personally take refuge here

p1p6
2 packs with no green cards in... ship the vines obv. Razz

p1p7
clear pick, you're clearly up to speed on the format (I don't think I've played another format where this is the pick before)

p1p8
how lucky

p1p9
hate the vestige, it could be sided in against you to good effect

p1p10 + p1p11
you know what I think about 4-3-2-2 vs 8-4.... but there's no pro tour in the near future, so w/e

p1p13
misclick?

p2p4
no problem, take kracken hatchlings highly. that guul daaz vampire pick is looking a bit silly now

p2p7
I actually like teetering peeks over crocodile and eel from this pack... thoughts?

p3p3
this pack is so good because you'd expect to table something from it given the blue and black you saw pack 1

p3p5
8-4 etc.

p3p6
you have two tsunamis and a lot of evasion, no mention on why the peaks doesn't even get a thought?

p3p7
.... but your deck should beat a deck like that right? seas is obviously the right pick, but even lacerator should be taken over it

p3p8
ok, this was an unfortunate timeout

p3p9
hate net? seriously though, in a format full of 2/x this card is perfectly fine and gives you the ability to alternate between defence and offence pretty well, although less relevant in a deck like yours with a clogged high end (4 drops = high end in zen as you well know)


I think that whilst you have a plan you need to focus on what you have taken already and the consequences this has for your deck. Sure, mostly peaks is not a great card in ub (although I don't DISLIKE it in an evasion orientated deck like ub) but you have TWO tsunamis, which makes the card a LOT better. I think you overate seas a bit, you REALLY want anything to absorb pressure with in this deck with your powerful high end and should be very unhappy with playing a 1U card that cantrips, as the only way you should lose is if you get tempo'ed out. seas has its place, but this is one of the worst decks for it. other than that a solid draft, I know I sound a bit harsh considering these are only minor mistakes, and the draft was obviously well drafted with no major mistakes, and you won. However, I think to get to the next level you need to think more about your deck's gameplan, and less about taking good cards. In this draft I think you just took cards you knew were good in a general UB draft archetype without thinking about what you had drafted already.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dv8r wrote:
I have time for a walkthrough today

p1p5
don't like this pick at all, bloodghast, refuge, lacerator are all better picks, in ub (you ARE going to be blue, and probably base blue), this won't be turned on unless you are already winning. I personally take refuge here

p1p6
2 packs with no green cards in... ship the vines obv. Razz

p1p7
clear pick, you're clearly up to speed on the format (I don't think I've played another format where this is the pick before)

p1p8
how lucky

p1p9
hate the vestige, it could be sided in against you to good effect

p1p10 + p1p11
you know what I think about 4-3-2-2 vs 8-4.... but there's no pro tour in the near future, so w/e

p1p13
misclick?

p2p4
no problem, take kracken hatchlings highly. that guul daaz vampire pick is looking a bit silly now

p2p7
I actually like teetering peeks over crocodile and eel from this pack... thoughts?

p3p3
this pack is so good because you'd expect to table something from it given the blue and black you saw pack 1

p3p5
8-4 etc.

p3p6
you have two tsunamis and a lot of evasion, no mention on why the peaks doesn't even get a thought?

p3p7
.... but your deck should beat a deck like that right? seas is obviously the right pick, but even lacerator should be taken over it

p3p8
ok, this was an unfortunate timeout

p3p9
hate net? seriously though, in a format full of 2/x this card is perfectly fine and gives you the ability to alternate between defence and offence pretty well, although less relevant in a deck like yours with a clogged high end (4 drops = high end in zen as you well know)


I think that whilst you have a plan you need to focus on what you have taken already and the consequences this has for your deck. Sure, mostly peaks is not a great card in ub (although I don't DISLIKE it in an evasion orientated deck like ub) but you have TWO tsunamis, which makes the card a LOT better. I think you overate seas a bit, you REALLY want anything to absorb pressure with in this deck with your powerful high end and should be very unhappy with playing a 1U card that cantrips, as the only way you should lose is if you get tempo'ed out. seas has its place, but this is one of the worst decks for it. other than that a solid draft, I know I sound a bit harsh considering these are only minor mistakes, and the draft was obviously well drafted with no major mistakes, and you won. However, I think to get to the next level you need to think more about your deck's gameplan, and less about taking good cards. In this draft I think you just took cards you knew were good in a general UB draft archetype without thinking about what you had drafted already.


p1p5. I think i underate this card and its part of the reason my results are not as good with most peoples with black, so I wanted to try it out. It was actually good, as a late game top deck in alot of sitautions its good and some times youve got them down below 10 and they oran rief you and damage dries up. This guy was good at still getting through damage in thoose situations.

p1.p6 yep

p1p9. I disagree I was short on playables this draft and almost had to play him, to early to be hating

p1p13 I never had to play the trap, infact i wouldnt consider it playable up until i read feedback for this draft

p2p7 I would have took the eel as im low on playables and prob still anyway. I really do not want to play peaks, just because of tsunmai, Id much rather just have a better mana base, as modo shuffler is truly random

p3p9 Agree I think net would have been better

Generally i see your argument with seas however i do not think it is fair to say its because i am not thinking about what ive already drafted. Picks like the expedition hatchlings early show i was aware of what i drafted, I was constantly trying to not take 4 drops through out the draft. It was more a case of not seeing how good seas would be in this deck and being short on playables.
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dv8r



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe I wasn't entirely clear in my argument on peaks and guul daaz vampire in your deck:

first, peaks:
1) you deck is very very top heavy, and you have far too many 4 drops to be considering playing them all (this is why I would consider peaks over eel p2p7, although I admit I would probably take eel and hope to get some hatchlings pack 3)

2) this means you will be playing 18 lands. it also means that you will naturally be on the defensive early on vs all those aggro decks full of 2/1s for 2. having lands that "do something" when drawn in the late game will undoubtable be helpful (although crossroads' ability to get you out of burn range would probably be better, peaks is no slouch in a deck full of evasion) and guard against the potential to flood that 18+ land decks have

3) your mana considerations are very solid, you have few double casting cost cards. this means that playing a "colourless" land isn't likely to hurt you

4) you have 2x living tsunami, this makes peaks a lot better, as it turns living tsunami into a MUCH more imposing threat, allowing you to race effectively, push through a raptor whilst it blocks or w/e. as it is, tsunami is JUST going to be a 4/4 for 4, which is fine, but not an outright "bomb" in this format


mindless null and guul daaz vampire are deck consideration cards. both of these cards are perfectly fine in aggro decks (I've played null several times in this format and been perfectly fine with it). however, you are NOT an aggro deck, your curve is far too heavy to be an aggro deck. and you will not be pushing through large amounts of damage early. you will also likely not have any burn to turn guul gaaz vampire on from a board position where you are behind. do you know this in pack 1 when you made the picks? well, yes and no. admittedly you don't know what your deck is going to look like after pack 3, however, you DO know what ub decks typically look like. with the exception of tern, and to a lesser extent raptor, most of the blue cards in the format lend themselves to being defensive, and then racing later on with fliers. thus null's can't block ability is actually likely to be very relevant in the grand scheme of your deck, whereas vampire is unlikely to be very effective unless you are already forcing through damage in the air (i.e. once you are already winning)
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Wardo



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Living Tsunami truly is a beast I agree!

I really like blue-black though Razz

Good draft
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