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Interesting Cardpool 6xZendikar


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Shinato



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: Interesting Cardpool 6xZendikar Reply with quote

Hi guys, I'd really like to know what you would built from these cards. I ended up WR which might be a little surprising at first glance but for good reasons. Tell me what you think.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
1 [ZEN] Kabira Crossroads
1 [ZEN] Turntimber Grove

// Creatures
2 [ZEN] Giant Scorpion
2 [ZEN] Hagra Crocodile
1 [ZEN] Heartstabber Mosquito
1 [ZEN] Mindless Null
1 [ZEN] Nimana Sell-Sword
2 [ZEN] Vampire Lacerator
2 [ZEN] Grazing Gladeheart
2 [ZEN] Oran-Rief Recluse
1 [ZEN] Oran-Rief Survivalist
1 [ZEN] Territorial Baloth
1 [ZEN] Timbermaw Larva
1 [ZEN] Vastwood Gorger
1 [ZEN] Bladetusk Boar
1 [ZEN] Goblin Shortcutter
1 [ZEN] Highland Berserker
1 [ZEN] Plated Geopede
3 [ZEN] Shatterskull Giant
1 [ZEN] Tuktuk Grunts
1 [ZEN] Caller of Gales
2 [ZEN] Reckless Scholar
2 [ZEN] Umara Raptor
2 [ZEN] Windrider Eel
1 [ZEN] Caravan Hurda
2 [ZEN] Kor Hookmaster
1 [ZEN] Kor Outfitter
1 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
1 [ZEN] Kor Skyfisher
2 [ZEN] Ondu Cleric
1 [ZEN] Kazuul Warlord
1 [ZEN] Kabira Evangel
2 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 [ZEN] Murasa Pyromancer
1 [ZEN] Ęther Figment
1 [ZEN] Kazandu Blademaster
1 [ZEN] Kor Duelist
2 [ZEN] Shepherd of the Lost
1 [ZEN] Crypt Ripper

// Spells
2 [ZEN] Explorer's Scope
1 [ZEN] Disfigure
1 [ZEN] Hideous End
1 [ZEN] Khalni Heart Expedition
2 [ZEN] Relic Crush
2 [ZEN] Tanglesap
1 [ZEN] Demolish
1 [ZEN] Goblin War Paint
1 [ZEN] Slaughter Cry
1 [ZEN] Zektar Shrine Expedition
1 [ZEN] Cancel
1 [ZEN] Into the Roil
1 [ZEN] Ior Ruin Expedition
1 [ZEN] Lethargy Trap
1 [ZEN] Trapfinder's Trick
1 [ZEN] Whiplash Trap
3 [ZEN] Bold Defense
1 [ZEN] Journey to Nowhere
2 [ZEN] Blood Tribute
1 [ZEN] Pyromancer Ascension
1 [ZEN] Rite of Replication
1 [ZEN] Trailblazer's Boots
1 [ZEN] Trusty Machete
1 [ZEN] Marsh Casualties
1 [ZEN] Needlebite Trap
1 [ZEN] Baloth Cage Trap
1 [ZEN] Cobra Trap
2 [ZEN] Punishing Fire
1 [ZEN] Summoner's Bane
1 [ZEN] Brave the Elements
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TugaChampion



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Separate by colors than someone might actually want to look at it.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah despite really good black I also think wr allies is right, as it just has better creatures and almost as good removal.

1 [ZEN] Trusty Machete
1 [ZEN] Goblin Shortcutter
1 [ZEN] Highland Berserker
1 [ZEN] Plated Geopede
1 [ZEN] Journey to Nowhere
2 [ZEN] Punishing Fire
1 [ZEN] Kazandu Blademaster
2 [ZEN] Ondu Cleric
1 [ZEN] Kor Skyfisher
2 [ZEN] Kor Hookmaster
1 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
1 [ZEN] Kabira Evangel
1 [ZEN] Bladetusk Boar
1 [ZEN] Shatterskull Giant
1 [ZEN] Tuktuk Grunts
1 [ZEN] Kazuul Warlord
2 [ZEN] Shepherd of the Lost
1 [ZEN] Murasa Pyromancer
11 plains
7 mountains
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Drizzs



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allies are never right!
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Shinato



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Trotzky1: While i agree with you concerning the color i think it's a big blunder not to play the 2 other Shatterskull Giants which are just very good cards. I don't think there is a need to go that deep into white with 11 Plains as just a few cards cost double white. I would evenly split the colors 9-9 and play the 2 Giants but not the Murasa Pyromancer which is not good enough at 7 allies in my opinion. It will often be a bad Torch Slinger and I don't want that at CC6. I would not stress the ally theme too much as you won't always draw the Kazuul anyway, but it's a nice add for me.

So for me it's

-2 Plains
+2 Mountain
-1 Murasa Pyromancer
+2 Shatterskull Giant
-1 other card (probably even an Ondu Cleric but not completely sure)

I've found out that in Zendikar Limited good creatures are worth more than decent removal spells.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the allie theme more in selaed as its slower plus i have 8 allies Im not a big fan of the giant. Taking out the allies makes the deck less powerfull and more consistant and i just prefer power in selaed.
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Shinato



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Giant is 4/3 for 2RR, that is very good! It also fits the curve perfectly.
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MASSIVE mistake not playing the black here. You got basically the best non-rare bomb black you could get!

2 scorps
2 crocs
1 mosquito
1 sell sword
2 lacerator
2 gatekeeper
1 ripper
1 disfig
1 end
1 MARSH

These are good cards.

berserk
short
boar
geo
giant
grunts
warlord
pyromancer
paint
cry
fire

Or

2 hookmaster
2 ondu cleric
1 skyfisher
1 sanct
1 outfitter
1 evangle
1 blademaster
2 sheperd
1 journey
1 brave

Or

2 raptor
2 eel
1 fragment
1 roil
1 expedition
1 whiplash
1 rite of replication
1 summoners bane
1 cancel even, if you need it

I actually like the blue here, because with any other colors black is just along side, but with the blue it is dominant. and with all those good double black cards that is what you want.

Trotsky...How is 2 removal almost as good as 1 end, 1 disfig, 1 MARSH, 2 edict guy, 1 mosquito? It's not, not even close. Black is the CLEAR choice here!
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not find the gatekeeper that good im limted its tripple black, which often by the time you get to make, you get some rid of some irreleavnt turn 2/2 who has already served his purpose, and only ambition left in life is to chump some beast.

Marsh casulties is the major argument for black but the fact is casulties aside the quality of the red and white spells is better. Plus has less curve issues, hagra crocodile is fine as a 2 drop if your on the front foot but if your on the back its a real squandered 4th turn.

Also Vampire lacerator is a card i do not like, its often just as much of a problem for yourself as it is the opponent.

The red white deck is so much more fluid than all the other options more evasion, better creatures, better curve, better synergy between cards. Vs Casulties, end disfigure and a bunch of mediocre black cards. Id opt for an overall higher level of quality through out the deck rather than a few higher quality cards and then a bunch of average ones.
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trotsky1 wrote:
I do not find the gatekeeper that good im limted its tripple black, which often by the time you get to make, you get some rid of some irreleavnt turn 2/2 who has already served his purpose, and only ambition left in life is to chump some beast.

Marsh casulties is the major argument for black but the fact is casulties aside the quality of the red and white spells is better. Plus has less curve issues, hagra crocodile is fine as a 2 drop if your on the front foot but if your on the back its a real squandered 4th turn.

Also Vampire lacerator is a card i do not like, its often just as much of a problem for yourself as it is the opponent.

The red white deck is so much more fluid than all the other options more evasion, better creatures, better curve, better synergy between cards. Vs Casulties, end disfigure and a bunch of mediocre black cards. Id opt for an overall higher level of quality through out the deck rather than a few higher quality cards and then a bunch of average ones.


I completely disagree with basically everything said here. gatekeeper is awesome in every way. Its a 2 for 1 almost every time, and with blue you can even block and repeal it, which is always fine. You very rarely cast it on 3 for multiple reasons, the least of which being its triple black. I added the blue because you need far less of it than if you would play the white or red.

Lacerator is always good on 1, always. late its just as bad as any white 2 drop, but it costs 1 mana less.

The "quality" of the white spells is debatable, as the white is just a smattering of "dudes" with just a journey. Good creatures, but just creatures. Sealed is about removal, and he has one of EVERY removal spell in black.

Red... No where near the quality of black here whatsoever. The red is only playable with the white, but thats clearly an inferior deck to the black/X.

You say more evasion...blue has 4 really good flies, an unblockable, and additional creature removal. The curve for RW isn't THAT fluid with very little on 4 (most important turn against B/U) and you aren't applying much pressure without geopeads and lynx and a good amount of removal. The more powerful decks with black in them will beat the crap out of that RW build, and that build would also have trouble with a solid green build with the lack of removal and inability to deal with "worms" other than journey.
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Shinato



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 Kor Hookmaster, nuff said.

Anyway, please post a concrete decklist we can discuss.
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shinato wrote:
2 Kor Hookmaster, nuff said.


that card relishes on the landfall quick guys, which he has none of. Its an amazing card in general, but its not quite as good without applying pressure.
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Shinato



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not applying pressure? The Deck has 6 or 7 Creature for 2 Mana. Followed by Hookmaster it is very hard for them to keep up. You also have strong late game cards in 2 Sheperd of the Lost which are just bombs as well. You even have Machete to make your creatures nutz sometimes.
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coolcreep



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 588

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that WR is pretty clearly correct. Marsh casualties is a strong card, but sheperd is only slightly weaker, is less situational, and he has 2 of them. The WR deck can get board presense early, keep pressure up with hookmasters, and then when a deck has to expend all its removal to stop from being overwhelmed, you simply drop sheperd and win. The UB deck is good, but the WR one is much more explosive and consistent.
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolcreep wrote:
I think that WR is pretty clearly correct. Marsh casualties is a strong card, but sheperd is only slightly weaker, is less situational, and he has 2 of them. The WR deck can get board presense early, keep pressure up with hookmasters, and then when a deck has to expend all its removal to stop from being overwhelmed, you simply drop sheperd and win. The UB deck is good, but the WR one is much more explosive and consistent.


again, not at all.

Consistent in the fact that you have a handfull of creatures that do almost the same thing? People apparently are overrating this hookmaster, he's not as good as the gatekeeper AT ALL. Sheppard is auto win? It hits for 3 damage! The blue flier with landfall is about as good.

I forgot the Red had one geopeade, but even then Its a coin-toss.
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