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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised you didn't lose EVERY game to mana screw.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing as all Runeflaretrap.dec needs to counter is Oblivion Ring and sb Flashfreeze and you need to tap out sorcery speed to do anything at all, I am also surprised you managed to win that matchup.
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InWaking



Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like the deck idea, I would like to see your land base. Show it up.
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Super_Prep



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 convincing mirage
4 spreading seas

That right there is called noobism, any deck with 12 land destructible and 11 Jaces 15 Ajani Vengents and 14 Wraths is a auto win. Oh I forgot to add the 3 mana Identity Crisis my bad.
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loki3



Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking at your spreading seas and lunimarch ascension and... they fill up the same mana slot... and you want to play both early...
what your deck really needs is Worldwake to give you a Moat, which I'm quite sure it won't... Sad
********
Yes, your deck can lock down Jund completely... if you are on the play.
And get everything you want in your hand...

Hypothetically, if you are on the draw (and both have the nuts)....

T1 (Jund) Savage Lands
T1 (you) Glacial Fortress

T2 (Jund) Swamp, Putrid Leech
T2 (you) Island, Spreading Seas (on savage land)

T3 (Jund) Mountain, Blightning, attack for 4, you're at 13 and just discarded cards, and he's at 18 with a creature.
T3 (you) If you don't have another spreading seas, he can possibly play a Bloodbraid if he has a forest, verdant catacombs, or the red/green land that comes into play untapped if he has a mountain.

And if you take out the mountain with another islandify-ing spell, he can play another mountain and Blighting you again, or play a forest and get out another Putrid Leech. Basically even if you draw the same amount of spreading seas as he draws dual/triple/situationally-important lands, Jund still has lots of plays.


If you can't stop him again T3, he wins unless you wrath and then he draws completely dead or you get tons of spot removal.

Yes this is fast-Jund, and the nuts draw, but even without the putrid leech or blightning, you are still trailing behind trying to drop spreading seas.

All I'm saying is on the draw, Jund can get something off, and you can lock them out from playing blightning and bloodbraid if you keep grabbing their mountains, but they can still drop leeches or maelstrom pulses(at your speading seas). And if you don't have 2-3 land removers in your starting hand, they should have enough red mana sources to starting playing out their hand.
*************
However, if Jund gets land screwed, you punish them hard.
************
Despite my harsh critique, I commend your efforts and exploration. It is really fun trying to pull together new builds, and it looks like you are doing a great job with this one! I'm just trying to argue the other side of the coin, too!

Though, you've made me rethink things about jund and now I'm thinking about making a Jund with harrow/rampant growth and running a bit more basics
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loki3



Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check this out:
[url]
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/worlds09/video17[/url]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=201358


Basically, Gerry Thompson found a way/the way to get your land disruption out. He uses cascade to essentially give himself 20+ different ways of hitting the cards he's looking for. He stalls the board, then drops Sphinxes for the win.

Basically, same concept as you, crazier mana base, but it can always find the second spreading seas/convincing mirage. And 2-3 of these will completely disrupt Jund.
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Thanik



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

loki3 wrote:
I'm looking at your spreading seas and lunimarch ascension and... they fill up the same mana slot... and you want to play both early...
what your deck really needs is Worldwake to give you a Moat, which I'm quite sure it won't... Sad
********
Yes, your deck can lock down Jund completely... if you are on the play.
And get everything you want in your hand...

Hypothetically, if you are on the draw (and both have the nuts)....

T1 (Jund) Savage Lands
T1 (you) Glacial Fortress

T2 (Jund) Swamp, Putrid Leech
T2 (you) Island, Spreading Seas (on savage land)

T3 (Jund) Mountain, Blightning, attack for 4, you're at 13 and just discarded cards, and he's at 18 with a creature.
T3 (you) If you don't have another spreading seas, he can possibly play a Bloodbraid if he has a forest, verdant catacombs, or the red/green land that comes into play untapped if he has a mountain.

And if you take out the mountain with another islandify-ing spell, he can play another mountain and Blighting you again, or play a forest and get out another Putrid Leech. Basically even if you draw the same amount of spreading seas as he draws dual/triple/situationally-important lands, Jund still has lots of plays.


If you can't stop him again T3, he wins unless you wrath and then he draws completely dead or you get tons of spot removal.

Yes this is fast-Jund, and the nuts draw, but even without the putrid leech or blightning, you are still trailing behind trying to drop spreading seas.

All I'm saying is on the draw, Jund can get something off, and you can lock them out from playing blightning and bloodbraid if you keep grabbing their mountains, but they can still drop leeches or maelstrom pulses(at your speading seas). And if you don't have 2-3 land removers in your starting hand, they should have enough red mana sources to starting playing out their hand.
*************
However, if Jund gets land screwed, you punish them hard.
************
Despite my harsh critique, I commend your efforts and exploration. It is really fun trying to pull together new builds, and it looks like you are doing a great job with this one! I'm just trying to argue the other side of the coin, too!

Though, you've made me rethink things about jund and now I'm thinking about making a Jund with harrow/rampant growth and running a bit more basics


Played a few games vs jund with a version of enchantress, yet to lose. On the play or the draw.

Maybe I'm unusually lucky, or maybe getting 2 cip untapped lands, a leech and a blightning is a pretty rare opening hand for jund, while the enchantress deck is built around the whole concept of redudancy and reliability. It's honestly not that hard to stabilize from there with enchantress anyway. The reality is that junds manabase IS vulnerable. What looks like an absolute god hand can lose horribly to a single spreading seas if jund is on the draw, and even decent hands can lose to the same bad cantrip if it's on the play.

The deck gets some good sideboard options vs its bad matchups too, seems like a good version could be competitive. Maybe I'm just hoping since it would be nice to see a total jund hoser in the format, even if it sits at tier 2 forever. If you took this to a tourney you'd do better at the winners tables. If you drop a match early you might be looking at a pretty bad record.
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