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Valakut, The Molten Pinnacle



 
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Pillsburry



Joined: 17 Oct 2009
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:26 pm    Post subject: Valakut, The Molten Pinnacle Reply with quote

Can I do the following:

I have a forest, 2 mountain, Valakut and Khalni Heart Expedition in play. Khalni has 2 counters.

I play a mountain and put the valakut's ability on the stack (since a mountain came into play, even if I don't have 5 mountains it still goes on the stack), sac khalni getting 2 mountains and respond to the sac of khalni to play harrow saccing the forest and getting 2 more mountains.

I let everything resolve and deal 15 damage to my opponent.

Can I do that ?
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ik
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No because it only goes on the stack if you control at least 5 other mountains... also, 2 mountain + 1 mountain + 2 more is only 5 anyway...
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ik
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O harrow didnt read.
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blamin8or



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle's triggered ability has an "intervening 'if' clause." That means (1) the ability won't trigger at all unless, at the time a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, you control five or more Mountains other than that new one, and (2) the ability will do nothing if you control fewer than five Mountains other than that new one by the time it resolves.


this is the ruling on valakut gatherer page. The ability doesn't trigger and will not be put on the stack when ur first mountain comes into play. hope you can still win by dealing 12.

edit: i think you actually may only be dealing 6 here since you have 3 then 5 then 7 mountains and there need to be 6 mountains total (in play+coming into play>=6) in order to get all the triggers.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

blamin8or wrote:
The ability doesn't trigger and will not be put on the stack when ur first mountain comes into play. hope you can still win by dealing 12.

Actually, the two mountains from Harrow will come into play first and at that time you only have three other Mountains, so they will also no trigger Valakut. Only the last two Mountains off the Expedition will trigger Valakut and you will only get to deal six damage.
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relicscythe



Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:30 am    Post subject: Re: Valakut, The Molten Pinnacle Reply with quote

Pillsburry wrote:
Can I do the following:

I have a forest, 2 mountain, Valakut and Khalni Heart Expedition in play. Khalni has 2 counters.

I play a mountain and put the valakut's ability on the stack (since a mountain came into play, even if I don't have 5 mountains it still goes on the stack), sac khalni getting 2 mountains and respond to the sac of khalni to play harrow saccing the forest and getting 2 more mountains.

I let everything resolve and deal 15 damage to my opponent.

Can I do that ?


You'll only deal 6. As mentioned before, Valakut's ability only goes on the stack if you meet the 5+ mountain requirement when the lands come into play. You'll have 3 from land drop, 5 from the khalni (or harrow if you choose to cast it with khalni on the stack I guess) then finally the 6th and 7th coming into play would trigger Valakut.

If in the scenario you suggested you had 3 mountains, played one for turn then popped khalni/cast harrow, you'd deal 12 damage instead. Since you would have 4, then lands 5 and 6 enter at the same time which would trigger valakut twice (For each entering play it checks to see if there are 5 other mountains, which there are since there are now 6 in play.) Then 7 and 8 enter, dealing another 6 damage.
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darkwizard42
Level 2 Judge


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True judge test material right here...
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littleletler



Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, i have a question that I don't feel is different enough to start a new topic.

So say u have 4 mountains and a valakut with a khalni heart expidition ready to sac. If you sac the expedition and get the lands, does one land trigger the valakut? It all just matters if you say the lands hit simultaneously i think.

SO do they actually hit at the same time and make the mountain count go directly from 4 to 6 or do u get the one trigger effect?
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Valandor
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both mountains trigger
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littleletler



Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both count? As in 6 damage would be dealt when the 2 mountains enter when you had 4? I can understand why if you say yes, but i'm just making sure I understand that's how it works.
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Valandor
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah both count for the 6 damage, Its the same when you scapeshift for 6 mountains and a valakult (which does 18 damage)
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both Mountains come into play at the same time, and the game state is evaluated after the event. At that time, you have five other mountains, so both mountains will trigger Valakut.
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Tritemio



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it work with Blood Moon into play???
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Blood Moon is in play, Valakut will be a Mountain and won't have any triggered ability.

Tritemio wrote:
Does it work with Blood Moon into play???
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