5cc might still be alive here in a different way

Hirotsu · Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 32

First the decklist (sorry about it not being in MWS format...I just notepad'd it last night after coming home from my FNM).

4 Crumbling Necropolis
4 Arcane Sanctum
1 Marsh Flats
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Glacial Fortress
3 Rupture Spire
3 Island
3 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Plains

3 Sphinx of Lost Truths
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Broodmate Dragon

4 Ponder
4 Path to Exile
4 Esper Charm
4 Punish Ignorance
3 Day of Judgment
2 Negate
1 Obelisk of Alara
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Jace Beleren

Sideboard:

4 Deathmark
4 Flashfreeze
4 Celestial Puge
2 Slave of Bolas
1 Malakir Bloodwitch

Firstly, you may be asking yourself: wtf? no baneslayer? gtfo.

Well, honestly, the answer to that is because I actually don't own any baneslayers IRL, lol. If you want to add baneslayers, personally, I would be taking out the 2 bloodwitches, the 1 broodmate dragon, and the 1 sphinx of the steelwind.

Next thing is the land base. I know, I know, 24 lands is actually pretty low. I had actually been playing 5cc ever since it's first variation as quick'n'toast when it first showed up. I've tried testing this with 25-27 land, and it always felt clunky and odd. Having the 4 ponder actually helps with the land base QUITE a bit. It seems a little weird, but it works. Like, there wasn't a single game last night that I wish ponder were something else.

As far as punish ignorance: I don't own any/don't really like mindbreak trap (yes yes I know it's an amazing card and kills cascade easily). The way I see it, I like the extra life-gain, and that's why I play it, not because it lava spikes the opp. I know I could be playing offering to asha because of that same reason, but offering becomes a semi-dead card in the late game (yes, even though they have to pay 4), whereas ignorance keeps its potential. I actually never had a problem casting it either, which I was thinking I would going into the tournament.

Also, I don't really like the new-school thinking of "I gots to play these 4 cruel ultimatums in the deck zomg!" Cause uhh...screw the idea of drawing 2 in my opening hand.

Now for the sideboard: I effin love the semi-toolboxiness of the SB. Flashfreeze, Deathmark, and Celestial Purge. The only color I don't have an answer for is blue, but meh I've got hard-counters for that, and for the most part, most really really good blue cards are splashed with other colors. The only thing I don't like about my sideboard are the 2 slaves of Bolas and the 1 bloodwitch. I'm thinking about turning them into something else but I dunno. Maybe Infest? Maybe Pyroclasm? Only problem with those, is I feel I have a fairly good game against aggro as it is.

Anyway, lemme give a mini-match report from my FNM:

Round 1: played against u/g/w scute mob/baneslayer timewarp deck. 2-0. previous playing against this guy with other decks was tough. this time around...felt relatively easy.

Round 2: grixis bloodchief ascension/archive trap combo. 2-1. i won it in 3 because he got an ascension online with a magma phoenix out and i didn't have the path to deal with the phoenix beforehand.

Round 3: vampires. 2-0. game 1 saw 2 bloodghasts coming at me constantly with several paths being responded to with tendrils of corruption. i played an ultimatum followed by an obelisk and i was about to out-lifegain him until he scooped. game 2, i was at 4 by turn 7 when i tapped out to play an ultimatum which let me stabilze again.

Round 4: jund. 2-0. game 1 she got mana-screwed, and i double-ajani ultimate'd and double cruel'd. game 2: flashfreeze + celestial purge makes me feel this matchup is alot easier.

Anyway, there ya go. I would DEFINITELY like some help with those 3 slots in the sideboard.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I'm probably going to be taking out a mountain for another glacial fortress. I'll have to put in some more testing to make sure I'm not screwing myself on red though for cruel.

Vedrfolner · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 1951

I would rather have Sphinx of Jwar Isle than Malakir Bloodwitch, but I can see the Prowhite can be important. In any case Punish Ignorance is the weakest card (along with Ponder) in the deck.

Those 10 slots could be very helpful in improving the deck.

-4 Ponder
-4 Punish Ignorance
-2 Malakir Bloodwitch
+1 Rupture Spire
+2 Exotic Orchard (for testing, at least)
+1 Broodmate Dragon
+2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
+3 Agony Warp
+1 Negate

Manipul8r · Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 3

For the sideboard, Pithing Needle would help with pesky combos but also against PW's in the controllish decks which you haven't tested against.

I also think 1 Swerve in the SB would be good against some decks.

Wall of Denial could be great as well, though it's more of a main deck card.

Spyx · Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 1009

Isn't double negative > punish ignorance?

kenchi_09 · Joined: 16 Oct 2009 Posts: 3

only 2-3 Rupture Spire cuz it's sucks if u'll get em in ur start hand twice.

at least 2 sphinx of jwar isle are important against jund, and swerve either.

punish ignorance sucks, u rather play double negative against cascade.

maximum 2 sphinx of lt, u'll hate 2 discard.
also it always happened 2me that I'v got 2 play w/o kicker and then a terminate came, or path to exile aswell

2 main pyroclasm'll help u in the time span before u'r able2 play day of judgment.

kumagmd · Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 52

You have 4 ponders and 4 esper charms main, so I think you have enough land (whoever suggested you remove the ponders and add lands probably didn't understand the part where you said that ponders make up for the lack of continents - way too many lands).

Perhaps the double negative for punish ignorance? Although the life-swing is sweet, it requires more mana. Definitely Pyroclasm or Volcanic Fallout - it's a mana-based decision. I prefer Volcanic Fallout if your manabase can support it (instant speed removal is good, causes your opponents to overextend). It'll hurt you too, though, so better think about it first. Have you tried the Refuges (comes-into-play tapped, gain 1 life) lands instead of Rupture Spire? The lifegain might go a long way. And throw in some Path to Exiles, perhaps in lieu of Malakir Bloodwitch? Martial Coup is also good, al alternative win condition.

Mind_Game · Joined: 04 Feb 2009 Posts: 96

So I saw your list for help, so when 5CC died what happens next? Good question you play 4CC or Patrick Chapin's Famous next age Cruel Control that uses 4 colors (RBUW) No green is needed, you don't need maelstrom pulse and you don't need Broodmate dragons anymore either. So lets take a look at my list, and note I use just two baneslayers. I still think Obelisk of Alara is a powerful card, and so is the new Eternity Artifact with landfall from Zenikar, but... with Jund the new hot deck to beat, your not gonna be wasting spots.

Heres the list I used.

4 Color Control - Mind Game

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ALA] Arcane Sanctum
4 [ALA] Crumbling Necropolis
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
3 [M10] Glacial Fortress
3 [M10] Drowned Catacomb
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
2 [ZEN] Island (1)
2 [ZEN] Mountain (4)
2 [ZEN] Swamp (2)
2 [M10] Plains (1)

// Creatures
2 [ZEN] Sphinx of Lost Truths
2 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 [M10] Baneslayer Angel
2 [ZEN] World Queller

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Day of Judgment
3 [ALA] Cruel Ultimatum
3 [M10] Jace Beleren
4 [ALA] Esper Charm
3 [M10] Negate
3 [M10] Pyroclasm
2 [ARB] Terminate
2 [CFX] Path to Exile
2 [ARB] Double Negative

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ARB] Terminate
SB: 1 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 [M10] Flashfreeze
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 [CFX] Celestial Purge

Enjoy!

QuaziPance · Joined: 20 Oct 2009 Posts: 18

For the 4cc deck:

Regarding gatekeeper: I don't think you'll be able to reliably kick him while your opponent has 1 creature out. you are most likely going to be kicking him 4th or 5th turn (when you should be playing something else). The only real thing that he would help with is stagg anyways as you don't need the body that much. And for that you have other removal.

I would probably throw them out for some lightning bolts as they are much more versatile, easy to cast, and instant speed.

Mind_Game · Joined: 04 Feb 2009 Posts: 96

SugarShark · Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 247

when I make a control deck I immediately look for how many awkward avenues of card advantage I can fit in a list of 60

Ogle · Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 71

Maelstrom Pulse sounds good

Hirotsu · Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 32

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ALA] Crumbling Necropolis
4 [ALA] Arcane Sanctum
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [M10] Drowned Catacomb
2 [CFX] Rupture Spire
3 [UNH] Island
3 [UNH] Swamp
2 [UNH] Mountain
1 [UNH] Plains
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [M10] Glacial Fortress
1 [CFX] Exotic Orchard

// Creatures
3 [ZEN] Sphinx of Lost Truths
1 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
2 [ZEN] Malakir Bloodwitch
1 [ZEN] Sphinx of Jwar Isle

// Spells
4 [CFX] Path to Exile
4 [ALA] Esper Charm
4 [ARB] Offering to Asha
3 [ZEN] Day of Judgment
2 [MOR] Negate
1 [CFX] Obelisk of Alara
2 [ALA] Ajani Vengeant
2 [ALA] Cruel Ultimatum
3 [LRW] Jace Beleren
4 [LRW] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [10E] Deathmark
SB: 4 [10E] Flashfreeze
SB: 4 [CFX] Celestial Purge
SB: 3 [ALA] Agony Warp

This is the list me and a friend took to a 1k on Halloween. He took 13th (only 1 loss, and that was against jund (which we set this up to beat easily post-sideboard). he got triple-blightning'd both games...seems pretty bad). I, unfortunately scrubbed out.

Round 1: played against elves, I actually didn't test against this match at all. Apparently, playing a 3/3 that draws you a card for 4 and has synergy with everything in your deck seems good (elvish visionary + 2 oran-riefs out). Learned my lesson here, lol.

Round 2: Played against a fellow teammate playing bushwhacker. We decided to take an I.D. (for hopes of being put in the 0-2 bracket and having an easier time). Still played the match out, and while I basically auto-lose game 1, I win games 2 and 3 easily.

Round 3: UWR Planeswalker/Luminarch control. Uhh...yeah....this made me want to /wrists. Didn't think I'd see this at all with the way that I'm positive jund just rapes this deck, so it was a surprise, and my deck isn't tuned to beat control quite yet (I could only sideboard in flashfreeze (for swerve, double negative, and vengeant) and 2 celestial purge for the vengeants).

My friend on the other hand, had 2 draws against vampires (the first draw happened when the guy double-mind sludge'd him game 3 then resolved sadistic sacrament kicked (bad, i know) in turn 4 of extension. 2nd draw happened in the final round to determine if he would get into top8, but the girl slow-played the entire match). Only 1 loss against jund (trip-blightning 2 games in a row ftw). And won his other matches.

I decided to take out the Punish Ignorance after finding out that half the time it sucked when I had a mountain by turn 4. Offering to Asha played out very well (gaining 4 life still seems good), and making them wait an extra 4 turns to be able to resolve something against an offering makes the match turn more in my favor too.

I also took out the 1 broodmate dragon for 1 sphinx of jwar isle....considering the only green in the entire deck was coming from rupture spires. I tried maelstrom pulses too, but to do that, I needed to use like jungle shrines, savage lands, or seaside citadels. With the exception of the citadels, since none of those lands produce blue, it was hurting more than helping.

Mind_Game · Joined: 04 Feb 2009 Posts: 96

Oh really? (starts masturbating hardcore) I just love whereever the word Ultimatum fits.