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Is there any interest in REAL combos anymore???


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> General Magic-League Issues

Do you think magic is trying to get more new players by making a few cards look very good, almost too good? Thus killing the variety of cards being played?
Yes, the game is now unbalanced! It is way to obvious that some cards are too good! It sucks!
37%
 37%  [ 6 ]
Yes, some cards are way too powerfull, but it is to captivate both old players and new alike.
25%
 25%  [ 4 ]
I dont agree, most of the new good cards just balance the gameplay because it is easy to get rid of them. But yes it may captivate new players.
25%
 25%  [ 4 ]
I dont agree, these new cards are cool... play them or die!
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
Wha? I hate depth! Me ogre, me want to kill! me want easy pow pow! Just need a big red button that I can push to make me win!!! OOORggyah!
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 16

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SniperMayer



Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that's only for Standard imo. However it's true. There's no real combo or even control deck in T2. There are only a few aggros that are tier 1 and dominate the format. (Vampires, Jund, Boros) All the other decks were only built to beat these. It means balance is lost between aggro, control and combo.

There are a lot of combos in extended right now, maybe too much.

Legacy is where the balance is kept, but hey! How many players play eternal formats? I just love Legacy, but I have to say that no1 plays that format in my area.
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SniperMayer



Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Sarutobi:

It's easy. If you want to start playing Legacy you have to invest a lot of money in it. I mean you need fetches, duals, wastelands, etc... Or you can play budget and suck all the time vs better decks. That's why most play T2 (which is more expensive imo if you play it for longer period).

As my favorite type is combo, I tried to play 1. Tested Pyro ascension with many variants and Bloodchief Ascension too. Now I'm trying Time Sieve combo, but I just don't feel that it's secure of Jund for example. Boros is just too fast, Jund has Blightning which rapes the deck most of the time. All the aggro decks have tools to be very powerful, but there really isn't a reliable way to defeat them. At least I just can't find a consistent way to deal with them.
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Tink903



Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes as said above legacy is sort of expensive to get into if you want a solid deck. As for no combo in magic it seems to me that they are "dumbing" down the game alot with each new set/block and making aggro stronger and stronger. I mean in type as stated above also, the top decks are all aggro and while they are all good they dont take alot of thought to play or have hard learning curves. Extended isnt that bad right now though you should give that a look Smile
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EMA



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's nothing wrong with printing powerful cards... Were u happy when Kamigawa was spoiled?? Jitte and gifts ungiven in a sea of nothing...
Powerful cards is what makes them actually sell their product, they make profit, we are getting good cards, everyone wins here.
I sadly have to agree with the dumbing down of the game but I guess it was necessary to attract new players, I'm just curious to see where the game is going.
As for the standard format lack of balance, I don't agree, there are actually A LOT of combos to design around(time sieve, pyromancer, crypt of agadeem: that's plenty of combo cards), and I believe control decks are to come out once the meta is more defined.
Just my 2 cents
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SniperMayer



Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that we have combo cards and yes, I'm happy if WoTC prints more powerful cards BUT! The powerful cards' balance is also out to improve aggro. I mean if they printed some sort of nice draw cards or counters the format wouldn't suck like this. Ok it doesn't suck, but it's heading to a metagame like once was when Mirrodin was standard legal. Ravager that couldn't be stopped. Now we have at least some choices to play.

I only beg for a nice draw and a good counterspell. Now that much, but it can improve the meta and the whole format.
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TaKK



Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate how people dog on combo decks.

They are the same as playing any other deck. No interaction? The interaction is that your opponent tries disrupting your play while still posing a threat and you trying to survive while getting your win-con out.
Same as aggro or control... you do what you can to disrupt your opponent while finding a way to get your win-con out. Whether the win includes a "combo" or not doesn't matter.

So saying something like "I don't believe there should be a teir 1 combo deck in EVERY t2" is the same as saying "I don't think there should be a tier 1 control deck in every T2". Doesn't make sense does it?

But I agree the other non-T2 formats do have many more combo decks than T2... but T2 decks have won Vintage/Legacy/EXT tournaments before. =]

Anyway the format is still new; there is only one set out from the new Block. Control is almost non-existent at the beginning of a new meta. Be patient and wait for innovation... or make a deck yourself!
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Edowardo



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i feel this conversation is had at the beginning of every new block. just wait aggro always comes out strong while control waits in the shadows. this is history repeating itself. nothing new.
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kumagmd



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dude... there was this time where Faeries and 5cc were the only decks around. Fine, there was also Kithkin, but it was mostly the Fae and Reflecting Pool. Most people will always be unimaginative and just copy off the local/internet tech deck, with a few tweaks so they can claim the deck as theirs (or sometimes not even - see Cascade Desire). There is Es Una Trappa deck - Cast Summoning Trap for Iona, call out BLACK, and if you're still healthy, you almost auto-win agaisnt Jund and Vampires (no non-black destruction). The reason why a deck dominates is because people copy each other, see the most recent standard trial on M-L? Nothin' but Jund. It's bound to happen if a tournament just plays out with everyone playing Jund.

Combo decks are dangerous because they usually aren't very versatile and would require several cards to pull the game through. HOWEVER, Combo decks get points for plain style =).
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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worlds are coming up, I'm sure the pros are keeping the best of the best in control decks under wraps until then. So in a few months I'll probably read a thread complaining about control, then in another 4 months a thread complaining about some new combo deck.

AKA, the internet is all talk and no action.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its undeniable, wizards are dumbing down the game. As much as I do not like it, the impact has not been all that negative for me (keep in mind when i say this I play almost entirly limited). Overall I think its a good stratergy for keeping the flaming torch of magic alight for as long as possible, even if it does not suit my needs as a player.

I think Wizards would have to do alot, and I mean alot of dumbing down to stop the tournamnets being the same people winning by doing the same things.
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dwarfas



Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SniperMayer

Legacy is hard to play IRL. Not many people have duel lands or 4x tarmo. You bust out your countertop goyf deck while the guy pulls out a really slow cascade deck. you're just going to blow out the guy.

9 land green is probably the cheapest $ wise deck. That's the deck I hand to people to play with me in two headed giant or emperor or w/e. Nothing from it I will miss; no moxes duel lands none of that in there, just winter orb and vine dryad but they are scanned now; I keep them safe.

I learned my lesson. I played with real moxes and duel lands and even though they were in sleeves if I pull them out the back is jacked up.
~
Jacois

Reality is what you perceive - only you can change what is real in your mind

~
If combo decks are dumb then playing a creature and attacking with it till you win is dumb too.
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the internet is all talk and no action.

/thread
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Jag4



Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Combo decks aren't dumb, you still have to interact with your opponents in most match ups like trying to hold on to be able to go off against aggro or finding a window to go off against control or switch your plan (i.e transformative sideboard) altogether.


Also, some combo decks are the hardest to play because if you mess up when trying to go off, you lose, simple.


Jag
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rentintin3



Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep my P9 is jacked also. Haha or was till I sold that shit to my nigga bo-vice for your moms unborn child.
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rentintin3



Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep my P9 is jacked also. Haha or was till I sold that shit to my nigga bo-vice for your moms unborn child.
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