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Volrath's Shapeshifter and replacement effects



 
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blamin8or



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont know if i understand the question. i think "comes into play" abilities (if i understand correctly that this is what you are saying shapeshifter may copy) are not static abilities, they are triggered abilities that only happen when something comes into play with the ability on it. Since the thing that makes volrath's shapeshifter copy a creature in the graveyard is a static ability, it wouldn't apply until after shapeshifter is in play so the trigger doesn't happen.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volrath's Shapeshifter coming into play is no different than Clone coming into play. Their static ability kicks in before any replacement effects do and only after that are they checked for triggered abilities.
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blamin8or



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clone:
" You may have Clone enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield."

Volraths shapeshifter:
"As long as the top card of your graveyard is a creature card, Volrath's Shapeshifter has the full text of that card"

You are telling me these two abilities function the same? I think it is clear that clone gets any triggered abilities while shapeshifter does not.

"When CARDNAME enters the battle field" means triggered ability.

"If SOMETHING would do SOMETHING then it DOES SOMETHING ELSE INSTEAD." this is replacement effect.
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clone and Volrath's Shapeshifter do have very different abilities, yes. Clone's ability doesn't get applied before replacement effects, it generates a replacement effect itself. If other replacement effects then apply after applying Clone's you then apply those. This is why a Clone of a Spike Weaver would get the +1/+1 counters.


The game will look ahead to see what Volrath's Shapeshifter will look like in play when determining what replacement effects to apply, yes. But this is for a different reason.

Quote:
614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c-d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine how and whether these replacement effects apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield, continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent's characteristics on the stack (see rule 400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.


This is the rule that applies to the situation with Volrath's Shapeshifter.
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