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One Step Ahead: Mono Black Control


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CloaknDagger



Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning Bloodghast (huge debate going on in channel about it):

They are 4 of. I will never not run bloodghast. They are amazing, and will present a constant threat over and over. Once sorin hits, you drop them to 10 immediately and they have 1-2 turns to live. You'll find your late game infests/disfigures so much more useful when they're on the defensive, low on life, blocking 2/1's with their fatties.

They're anti-blightning. Anti-counter. Constant damage. They stay.
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Jag4



Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hexmage's should be there as defence against planeswalkers.


Probably worth cutting a castle


Crypt Ripper?
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Kytep



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been toying around with MBC as well; the main problem I've found is the lack of a good board sweeper. Infest just doesn't look so good when you're facing down Leech, Thrinax, Stag, Broodmate, and Beast tokens. Sure, Doom Blade can hit Beasts and Broodmate tokens, but that still leaves Leech, Thrinax, Stag, and Mother Broodmate. Tendrils and Gatekeeper just aren't enough to handle it all, especially when they're Cascading into half of it for card advantage/pressure.

If you're preparing this deck because you see Jund warping the meta, then I would suggest that you also need to prepare for Jund itself (if Jund were to vanish, the previous aggro format returns). Plus, I don't see Jund going anywhere soon, new meta or not. And I don't think this has a good matchup vs. Jund.

With the aforementioned creatures, plus Bloodwitch, Ob Nixilis, Nocturnis, and perhaps even an occasional Rampaging Baloths, it seems that Black probably doesn't have the tools to survive a longer, control-style game. I think that any long-game control style deck in this format is going to need board sweepers in order to have a chance.

And that means White (Damnation, why have you forsaken us?).

Plus, you'll always see aggro in every T2 meta; you can't count on it just going away. It's tough for a MBC deck to fend off aggro when its hand is choked up with the likes of Diabolic Tutor, Mind Sludge, Haunting Echoes, Ob Nixilis, Liliana, and Sorin. And I don't think that a few Disfigures and a couple more Infests from the sideboard are going to turn around matchups like Boros Landfall, RDW, or Vampires.

I could be wrong about any/all of this (just as anyone can be wrong about anything), but I've found in my own testing that I'm often missing Day of Judgment/Path/O-Ring/Journey to Nowhere/Planar Cleansing in my MBC as I get pounded to dust by one or more large Black creatures (or pro-Black Stags).

But it certainly is fun to try! I still want to make use of Sadistic Sacrament; I'm an old-school player (since 1996), and I just can't resist the prospect of a Turn 3 "popped" Jester's Cap, especially vs. opposing control decks with limited win conditions.

So, good luck!

Kytep
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just going to futher pop in and champion sign in blood. The dome ability is relevant control decks still get into races and from time to time this card will win you a game you would have otherwised lost. It may not be what the deck wants to do but games do not always go to plan, having cards that allow the deck to play more sucessfully in different modes is a massive plus to any skillfull player.

Sure thats not the main reason for its inclusion but I would be surprised if you tested for 20 games or more that if the dome ability was not relevant at least once.
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Jag4



Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, Trotsky's right. Historically speaking you'll find that most successful MBC decks use cards that draw cards at the cost of life (96-99 Necro, 2001 - 2003 Skeletal Scrying/Phrexian Arena, 2003-2005 Night's Whisper and Arena). The fact that you now have a Night's Whisper that can be used to kill an opponent surely most be good? I would have 4 Sign in Blood as an auto include.


The other problem is like what Kytep said, no decent board sweeper. There is no disc, Damnation, Oblivion Stone or even Powder keg that MBC can use, nor is there a decent cheap artifact creature like Steel Golem to deal with prop black creatures (Garcoyle costs 5 and a land). That, plus the fact that Jund can 2 for 1 with cascade/dragon means your going to have a hard time in the current meta.

Might be worth putting the deck on ice until Worldwake, or the format changes, who knows?


Jag
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illusion



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Built mine for aggro meta.

// Lands
24 [ZEN] Swamp (3)

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 [CFX] Nyxathid

// Spells
4 [LRW] Liliana Vess
4 [ZEN] Quest for the Gravelord
4 [CFX] Wretched Banquet
4 [TSP] Tendrils of Corruption
4 [ZEN] Disfigure
4 [ZEN] Mind Sludge
2 [ALA] Infest
3 [M10] Sign in Blood

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [M10] Hypnotic Specter
SB: 4 [ZEN] Bloodghast
SB: 1 [ZEN] Sorin Markov
SB: 1 [CFX] Nyxathid
SB: 2 [M10] Haunting Echoes
SB: 3 [M10] Duress

Kill creatures / Activate Quest, till you can pull off Vess's ultimate ability. Since the md is so based upon aggro, the sb is vs control.
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illusion



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jag4 wrote:
Once again, Trotsky's right. Historically speaking you'll find that most successful MBC decks use cards that draw cards at the cost of life (96-99 Necro, 2001 - 2003 Skeletal Scrying/Phrexian Arena, 2003-2005 Night's Whisper and Arena). The fact that you now have a Night's Whisper that can be used to kill an opponent surely most be good? I would have 4 Sign in Blood as an auto include.


The other problem is like what Kytep said, no decent board sweeper. There is no disc, Damnation, Oblivion Stone or even Powder keg that MBC can use, nor is there a decent cheap artifact creature like Steel Golem to deal with prop black creatures (Garcoyle costs 5 and a land). That, plus the fact that Jund can 2 for 1 with cascade/dragon means your going to have a hard time in the current meta.

Might be worth putting the deck on ice until Worldwake, or the format changes, who knows?


Jag


Another problem is they'res no mana accel. for black right now (past MBC years had Cabal Coffers / Extraplanar Lens, etc... those combined with Corrupt / Consume Spirit is nice).
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytep wrote:
I've been toying around with MBC as well; the main problem I've found is the lack of a good board sweeper. Infest just doesn't look so good when you're facing down Leech, Thrinax, Stag, Broodmate, and Beast tokens. Sure, Doom Blade can hit Beasts and Broodmate tokens, but that still leaves Leech, Thrinax, Stag, and Mother Broodmate. Tendrils and Gatekeeper just aren't enough to handle it all, especially when they're Cascading into half of it for card advantage/pressure.

If you're preparing this deck because you see Jund warping the meta, then I would suggest that you also need to prepare for Jund itself (if Jund were to vanish, the previous aggro format returns). Plus, I don't see Jund going anywhere soon, new meta or not. And I don't think this has a good matchup vs. Jund.

With the aforementioned creatures, plus Bloodwitch, Ob Nixilis, Nocturnis, and perhaps even an occasional Rampaging Baloths, it seems that Black probably doesn't have the tools to survive a longer, control-style game. I think that any long-game control style deck in this format is going to need board sweepers in order to have a chance.

And that means White (Damnation, why have you forsaken us?).

Plus, you'll always see aggro in every T2 meta; you can't count on it just going away. It's tough for a MBC deck to fend off aggro when its hand is choked up with the likes of Diabolic Tutor, Mind Sludge, Haunting Echoes, Ob Nixilis, Liliana, and Sorin. And I don't think that a few Disfigures and a couple more Infests from the sideboard are going to turn around matchups like Boros Landfall, RDW, or Vampires.

I could be wrong about any/all of this (just as anyone can be wrong about anything), but I've found in my own testing that I'm often missing Day of Judgment/Path/O-Ring/Journey to Nowhere/Planar Cleansing in my MBC as I get pounded to dust by one or more large Black creatures (or pro-Black Stags).

But it certainly is fun to try! I still want to make use of Sadistic Sacrament; I'm an old-school player (since 1996), and I just can't resist the prospect of a Turn 3 "popped" Jester's Cap, especially vs. opposing control decks with limited win conditions.

So, good luck!

Kytep


I have actually gone from 4 to 2 maindeck Infest, and so far have had no need to include more. It is weeks since last I faced a deck playing many small creatures, and right now they go out in nearly every game for Duress, more Mind Sludges and Haunting Echoes as well as Pithing Needle and Sadistic Sacrament.

If this continues, I will pitch the main vs control/combo rather than aggro.

Of course, my testing isn't of a serious and "scientific" kind, so this shouldn't necessarily mean everyone else should do the same.
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleshbag Marauder works well with bloodghast, sac a creature, make em sac one, and get a high power creature.


I dont see many decks in the current format (except 4cc and angels maybe) having a 5 card hand by turn 5, id cut down the mind sludge to 2.

You could main 4 dual lands for some board sweeper, however even though white works best, theres no black/white so, if you NEED the board sweep you could main 4 Dragonskull summit with either volcanic fallout/pyroclasm, just for the board control.

Dont be afraid to splash~
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would put it into a different context.


If you topdeck it vs an opponent with 1-2 life its a good draw...

If your playing Bloodchief ascension it can* serve the purpose of activating the enchantment... which sometimes can be worth something.


Putting your opponent under 10 life might let you squeeze a hasted bloodghast swing in or maybe prevent you from taking damage from your lacerators or perhaps even buff your -opponent under 10 life- type vampire (1/1 to a 3/2 i forget ><)


Still, those are very situational uses, generally you never would do such a thing as use sign in blood as a damage spell.
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