1st draft of a Zendikar enhanced Zoo list

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 80

Here is my 1st draft of a RWG zoo list with some new zendikar toys. I recognize a lot of you are far more knowledgeable and better than me, so id love your input on where i'm on the right track and where some changes could be made. Im proxying it for the time being for testing, etc. I'm organizing this by thought process:

1-drop creatures:
4 wild nacatl
3 goblin guide
3 birds of paradise

I know the 3ofs are kind of strange, but between these two and kird ape (and figure of destiny for that matter), its been one of the hardest decisions to make. I figure the birds will work well with the lotus cobras to ramp up some relatively early fatties or multiple cheapies. Goblin guide over kird ape is an experiment, hoping the haste and tidbit of knowledge about their hand will compensate for the missing toughness. I'm totally open to suggestion here, and figure whatever I go with will eventually become 4-ofs, but obv that involves reducing the number of other stuff, and I'm not sure what to cut yet.

2 and 3-drop creatures:
4 tarmogoyf
4 lotus cobra
4 wooly thoctar

At least for the time being, these are pretty much non negotiable while experimenting with the potential of the new snake. My last zoo build didn't have thoctars, but I want em in this time around, see how it goes. Maybe it makes more sense to have 2 or 3 thoctars and 4 of whichever 1-drops stay on the roster?

Fatties:
2 baneslayer angel
2 rampaging baloths

Another hard decision. I really love the flying lifelink, but also love the idea that in a late game, ripping a "useless" land can really strengthen my board. Id love 4 of each of these, but don't want to stray too far from the efficiency theme that zoo bases itself on. This is an area where I am eager to see the expert opinions. I'd def be more inclined to drop the baloths for 4 angels, but I'd also like to have my cake and eat it too if possible. Smile

Ranger of eos is a consideration as well, but don't want to cut anything for it.

Instants:
4 lightning helix
3 path to exile
3 lightning bolt

Another tricky mix to decide on. I've seen zoo builds with more burn and maybe there should be 4 paths, but I just wanted to make the card counts work with 22 land

Artifact:
2 umezawa's jitte

I suppose I could drop these to turn some of the 3s into 4s, but its tough to cut such a great weapon from a creature deck

Land:
2 forest
2 plains
2 mountain
10 fetches (still have the old fetches at the moment, but functionally it makes little difference)
2 stomping ground
2 sacred foundry
2 temple garden

Maybe too many basics, but my thinking was that a lotus cobra-centric build benefits from a lot of fetches, and having basics to grab for reduces pain while making an equal number of duals available should they be needed. But I wanted to get the numbers right because, of course, we're not always going to get our snake.

Sideboard:
I didn't really put much thought into sideboard yet, especially with the new extended meta being so up for grabs, but I'm sure I'd like it to have some Gaddock Teegs, some Canonists, and maybe a Shattering Spree or 2(or 3). I'm mostly looking for advice on the maindeck, but I'm won't turn down sideboard-related wisdom Smile

So what do you guys think? As I said, its definitely a 1st draft, and I haven't looked through every available RWG colored zendikar card, so maybe there's something else that begs to be put in here. There's little in this deck id be happy to cut, but im open to expert opinion. I just think there's a lot of potential in a lotus cobra feuled zoo build. There's plenty of talk about harrow, but I dunno.. doesn't seem to critical, I don't want to go too nuts on the mana and I think id rather topdeck an efficient creature than a harrow.

Ok, I've rambled enough, ill let the pros have the floor...

Thanks in advance!

jonproject · Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 250

play the Ranger Zoo lists that you can find on some of the recent top 4's/ top 8's on here, those are much better than your version, which is just not going to get there in extended. i am not an expert whatsoever on extended, but i know it is a very fast and unforgiving format, and your deck will basically do what Ranger Zoo does already, except worse =\ i wish i didn't have to put it like that, but that's pretty much the gist of it. people do play counterspells and path to exile/putrefy so answering your baneslayer angel and rampaging baloths isn't exactly hard. if you were ramping into things that literally won the game and shut out your opponent (there might be some possibility in that department, but i have no idea) then you would have something going.

again, sorry for critiquing so harshly; i hate doing it, but that's my opinion, and i've been testing extended a LOT over the last few months

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 80

Nah, it's cool. That's what I need to know. But I am curious to see how Zen can enhance these ideas

gypsy · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1118

zen is good for enemy fetches and not much else

braveghost · Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 14

landfall lynx should be played.

jonproject · Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 250

YEAH, Steppe Lynx is the absolute NUTS. He's a Kird Ape in limited and in a dedicated extended deck he can compete with Tarmogoyf and still keep your Wild Nacatls at 3/3

kfcman · Joined: 16 Sep 2006 Posts: 723

jonproject · Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 250

thanks mr. kfc!

for those who didn't get the memo, just keep playing your kird apes.

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 80

Thanks jonproject and kfc!

Yeah after jonprojects response I took a long hard look at the ranger zoo builds and went with something like those(with qasali maindeck, canonist SB). I REALLY like them actually. Though I did put in Baneslayer instead of the elspeth. But after kfc's post about the trouble w/ the fatties, I'm wondering if I should (with a tear in my eye) cut the angels? (I have 3 in there, cutting the land to 21 with your "thin out the land" idea in mind even before I read it) I definitely understand the point you're making, but would 2 or 3 lifelinking flying fatties in case a late-game comes up be that poor from a design sense? Or is it just missing the point entirely even to have 2 in there?

And if not, is Elspeth the right choice for the spot? Honestly I wasnt so sure yesterday, but as I'm looking at it now, I'm wondering if it's 1st ability isnt acting as a semi-Bitterblossom that doesnt hurt me(awesome) w/ a 2nd ability really fitting the zoo game plan. So while Im starting to sell myself on it as I type this, I still pose the question: is elspeth the best to fill in the spot? if so, you think go with 2 and add in the 1-of treetop village those builds seem to have(seems kinda pointless to me, at least as a 1-of)? 3 elspeths? or maybe 2 elspeths and some other 1-of like figure of destiny or, dare i say, baneslayer?

Damn, the more I look at elspeth, the more I like it admittedly.

Last question: jon, WERE you being sarcastic about the lynx? When I read your comment I honestly didnt think so, then I felt foolish when kfc said you were, now I feel foolish not not being sure lol

Thanks a lot guys! I can take criticism and I appreciate you guys being kind and willing to help instead of just saying "you suck" like some of the others like to do. You can tell me I suck all day, follow that up with some advice that helps me to not suck Smile

Take care

jonproject · Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 250

Yeah, lol, I was being sarcastic. Lynx is good once or twice in a Zoo deck via landfall, then you just stop playing lands and he sucks. Play Kid Ape for all your one mana 2/3 goodness. And Elspeth, Knight-Errant is the way to go over Baneslayer, especially in a deck with 21 lands. The only way anyone will answer Elspeth, short of attacking her to death (which shouldn't happen...), is counter her. She is an amazing top-deck, a stalemate breaker, source of late-game oomph, AND a win-con on her own. I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY suggest you play her over Baneslayer Angel, and that is not sarcasm this time, haha =)

And btw, 22 lands is definitely the way to go. I know it sounds stupid, but fetching lands out of your deck will really punish the lower number.

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 80

Noted, thanks. Will definitely put in the Elspeths instead of Angel. Aside from the lifelink, which I do dig, the elspeth basically turns someone else into an angel for a turn anyway.

So for that one last spot, you're thinkin another land instead of a 3rd elspeth or random 1-of? I'd be inclined to throw in another basic (have a friend who plays a lot of all in red and sideboarding basics seems a tad silly) instead of a lone treetop, but a lot of things Id be inclined to do have been countered in this thread, so I'm all ears Smile

I hate copying decklists for want of using my own creativity, but this ranger zoo does seem pretty damn optimized. Perhaps if I replace a treetop with a 2nd forest, it will be my own personal build! (my turn for sarcasm hehe)

jonproject · Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 250

I know what you're saying; I used to HATE copying other people's decklists out of creativity reasons. But then I realized: someone else took the time to test the living hell out of those 75 cards to come up with the most polished they can. This is even more relevant in Extended, where a metagame can still be rather vague as to what you might play against, so you really want to be able to rely on your deck's raw power and consistency. Those Ranger Zoo decklists are VERY polished; kudos to who/whomever spent the time testing to build it.

And I would keep the singleton Treetop. It sounds silly but, I've actually won games against slower control decks (namely Blue decks) with it, and its quite fetchable with Knight of the Reliquary. It can be rather pesky to answer if your opponent is light on spot removal and already blew their Engineered Explosives.

jonproject · Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 250

And if you realize you're playing against an All-In Red deck (more specifically, you sit down against your buddy) start cracking those fetch lands for basics ONLY. Don't waste your time on shock lands that will turn into mountains. Its very possibly to run out your hand on a trio of each basic and a shockland-turned-mountain (that you drew, of course ;] )

Best part is, you run Lightning Bolt to kill their Magus of the Moon and Path to Exile to neuter their Demigods or Deus of Calamity!

Thicket · Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 80

Yep, thats been my strategy EXACTLY. Only problem is when I win, he goes 1st, and can something-moon on turn 1. So it goes. Tho I must admit I got pretty lucky last night on how many paths to exile I was drawing hehe