M10 (Magic 2010) Rule changes.

darkwizard42 · Level 2 Judge Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 259

Not a fan of the Battlefield and Casting ideas...

This isn't Dungeons and Dragons, sure its a fantasy world with a very fantastical game, and creatures and mythical things, but the field of play, and playing a spell both seemed quite logical and easy to understand. I didn't think that was a difficult thing to teach new players about.

Loss of the combat damage stack is a tough call. I'm not the best player and I have definitely been owned by a better players combat tricks, but if this is how it was before 6th edition, and worked, then lets see how it works now after 11th edition (M10 w/e).

No mana burn...hmm, idk makes some cards good, some cards bad, emptying mana pools at each step is also something that just makes you play more carefully, takes away some tricks, but nothing serious.

Not allowing Lifelink to stack on itself doesn't seem like it will change the game that much either, again just eliminates some tricks people used to use.

Bounce spells are seriously getting shafted...

The new changes are interesting, but I definitely do not enjoy the "Battlefield" and "Casting" changes.

dipstik · Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 14

the damage section is interesting. are those actual counters or virtual game counters that are put onto creatures during the damage step? and the game destroys damaged creatures, not spells or creatures... kinna odd

and i dont think mana drain needed to be made more powerful...

mana burn is a really cool mechanic, hate to see it go... just to dumb down the game... f'in lame

on the wotc discussion the say you can cast stuff during the assign damage step if first strike peepz are involved, and they even say after normal damage resolves you can play abilities.

from the article i thought everything you wanted to do had to happen during the block step..

can anyone clarify?

Ronnan · Level 3 Judge Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 170

dmg not using the stack is p(l)ain retarted
lets just remove anything that might have potential for one player to outplay the other

cause the other wont like that...

i dont know if im willing to learn new rules.

Vedrfolner · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 2325

Trotsky1 · Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 1840

This is a wonderfully complex card game that tests a broader range of skills than any other card game I know, its sad to see it simplyfying itself to appeal to stupid people.

venom_aa · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 82

lol they just killed troll aesthetic XD and the whole band of atackers with regeneration.

Way to go Wizards. Isnt there a way for M-L to stick to the pre M10 rules cause the removal of combat dmg on stack really sux.

I propose a poll for that XD

DoomBring3r · Joined: 30 Apr 2009 Posts: 436

They kinda fail when they claim that 'a creature doesn't just swing and dissapears and has its' swing land', and then turn the whole combat phase into something from a Bruce Lee movie:

The attacker now shall fight defending creatures in succession, one by one...

I mean, how retarded is this? -.-'

Not to mention the huge number of people who are gonna get 2 for 1'd when they try and pump their critters, that will be just lol thank god i didn't fancy pumps at all except maybe in Limited, and even then...

Oh also, did you notice Momentary Blink decks getting raped, sodomized and thrown in the garbage along with the used condom?
Not that they've been getting much play outside of their era, but not they won't get any love at all.

Regarding the other changes, well i honestly don't give a rat's ass about them, it's just a bunch of cosmetic issues, really.

Lifelink won't stack and will resolve without triggering? Sure, i can live with that, sucks for Red decks, though.

Deathtouching creatures weren't blocking or being blocked by enough Troll Ascetics as of late, so uh, sure change it away like i care.

And since we're talkin' about abilities, WHAT ABOUT FIRST STRIKE? Omigosh it just right about now looks like it got raped, their kids got raped, and even its' dog got sodomized! No more Ghitu Encampment shenanigans with burn spells while damage was on the stack, oh lol.
Sure it's still working when single or double blocks with both F-strikers happen, but duh.

Newb people learned to play the game, that's how things worked, and worked well, but noooo WoTC still had to dumb things down and help them, sounds like the nerfs in WoW and people QQ'ing all around that they got their ass kicked in sanctioned events, aw sweet Jesus. :<

EDIT: Found this cool petition site, check it out Smile

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/give-stacked-combat-damage-a-chance

lol

EQ_killa · Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 36

I like the changes that they are making, they make more sense(how can a saced creature still deal combat damage?). The only thing I don't like is how assigning damage works(see nico's post) and the new mulligan rule(doesn't give the player going second an advantage anymore). I think everyone is being overdramatic about these changes, especially with the keyword changes, I don't hear anyone complaining about discard pile being called graveyard or deck being called library. battlefield and exile just add consistency with the zone names and flavor to the game.

Alvaro21k · Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 77

As a faerie player, I consider the "Stack Damage" portion of combat one of the most important parts in the game, and one that requires a lot of ability and rules knowledge.

They took out a very important strategic aspect of the game.

Spyx · Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 1186

Lol @ morphling

Kytep · Joined: 21 May 2006 Posts: 187

I don't know how many of you were around for (let alone remember) the 6th Edition rules changes, but talk of the end of Magic, "I'll never play again", "This is the worst thing ever", "They simplified it too much for the dummies", yadda, yadda, abounded. And I think things turned out OK, even though those changes were MUCH bigger than M10's. Here are a few of the things that would be different today if the 6th Edition changes had NOT happened:

1) No more stack: As soon as the last player passes priority, not only does the last effect resolve, but EVERYTHING on (what we know as the stack) resolves, in LIFO order. No more letting the last effect resolve and then adding a new effect before the second-to-last can resolve. This was HUGE and was tough to wrap the mind around at first.

2) Interrupts: Mostly counters, there was a spell type called "Interrupt", and if one was played, the only type of spell which could be played after it was more Interrupts. So, if your opponent countered something, you couldn't respond with another spell, unless it also was an Interrupt. It was kind of like Split Second, but due to # 1, above, it effectively meant that once someone casted an Interrupt, they could effectively force all spells on the "stack" to resolve (you can't play any non-Interrupt, and once the Interrupts start resolving, EVERYTHING must resolve before you can play anything new).

3) Damage Prevention Step: Rather then being applied immediately on resolution, damage was merely "assigned" by spells, et al, which then triggered an entirely separate step where players could play spells, etc. before the damage actually occurred. Like today's laments of no more "damage on the stack", people thought this would favor bad players due to more luck influence as opposed to skill influence.

4) You still live at 0 life: Under pre-6th rules, you could go to zero life during a turn and still not lose, as long as you came back above zero before the phase ended. Prosperous Bloom players wailed about this one.

There were others as well (e.g., artifact abilities "turned off" when the artifact was tapped). Now, imagine that the changes were to go from today to the rules above (i.e., to revert back to the pre-6th Edition rules). I suspect we'd see at least the same level of cries of the end of Magic, yadda, yadda as we're seeing today, probably even more. While we'll have to see what the M10 changes actually bring to the game, I have a feeling that, once we get comfortable with the new rules and they settle into the way we play, many of us won't be able to imagine how we ever played without them.

But I think this is natural - I think most of this is human nature (clinging to what is familiar as "best"; fearing or at least looking down upon change). But don't worry; soon enough, these rules will be the "familiar" ones and therefore "best". Smile

For those who want a take a little trip down Memory Lane (or to just see how eerily comparable the reactions to 6th Ed changes are to the reactions to M10 today), here are some links:

WoTC Letter responding to cries of "the end of Magic": http://www.wizards.com/magic/advanced/6e/6E_Letter.asp

Magic Dojo: http://www.classicdojo.org/

Some Dojo 6th Ed Changes Discussions:
http://www.classicdojo.org/b985/bif.981126bge.txt
http://www.classicdojo.org/b985/bif.981125kwi.txt
http://www.classicdojo.org/b985/bif.981129lbu.txt

Bottom Line: This talk of "end of Magic" yadda yadda is as premature today as it was in 1999. Let's play for a while under the new rules and THEN consider their impacts, rather than just speculating the worst.

Kytep

LordLink · Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Posts: 79

I'm going to keep repeating myself because people keep making the same dumb accusations.

Damage on Stack DOES NOT EQUAL SKILL.

Damage on the stack is a retarded means of letting players sit it safe and do their shit without worrying about what their opponent can do. In magic you should ALWAYS be able to interact with your opponents tricks.

Take this apparent "Death of Ghitu Encampment".

Previously:

"First strike damage on stack, Incinerate your guy."

Now:

"After blockers, Incinerate your guy, now first strike damage kills him".

THAT IS EXACTLY THE SAME FUCKING RESULT.

The sole difference is that your opponent can now go:

"before moving on to damage, I terror your Ghitu Encampment, now your Incinerate is wasted!"

This ADDS a level of complexity to the game because you always need to be aware of what your opponent can do and judging risks/rewards. There is no longer a safe means of mindlessly dropping your spells on the table just because you're leet and know the rules.

Kev · Level 1 Judge Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 100

sushiPasta · Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 1

If i wanna play simpler cardgames i have plenty of other choices for that... Mostly this stuff, besides renaming things, is taking something away from MtG.. Like no manaburn? What the heck does that add for the game? When developement is going backwards like this and not forward, it's worrying. F* American "make it kiddiesimple" dilemma.
And this end of damage stacking is going to be the end of many current players interest for the game. Do they really think that so many players have remained fans of this game for simplicity?! T_T

Yes.. Painting devils on the walls, but there's still something into it.

There's an address for the sake of ye ol' good combat step.

http://www.pro-dots.com/

Propably won't affect it, but at least we're doing our best, right? :>

MikeL123 · Joined: 27 May 2007 Posts: 78