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M10 (Magic 2010) Rule changes.


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Lynolf



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: Rules Change Reply with quote

So let's get this straight: Wizards wants to turn the game more, let's say, "realistic". So all these combat damage, deathtouch/lifelink changes are for that purpose. Seems fine to me, I have no complex problems with that. Like it was said previously, some cards will lose power over this, but other ones will arise from their graves to take place in some decks.

Under the old rules:
- Mogg Fanatic, fire Hyper Beam, now throw yourself like a fanatic at your opponent to deal 1 extra damage!

Under the new rules:
- Now should I launch a Hyper Beam or make it suicide himself to kill that blocking Llanowar Elves? Meh, the suicide looks funnier!

Makes sense to me. What I don't understand is, why complicate the game with ordered blockers and lethal damage stuff, when they could have simply stated that if the source of the damage has left "the battlefield" when damage is about to be assigned, then it isn't assigned anymore? Wouldn't it be turned out to be MUCH simpler than all these combat damage changes? Laughing

Another thing that confuses me is how the mana burn rule has got anything to do with this new "realistic" thing. It obviously wrecks strategy purposes that could be significant in some situations, and has nothing to do with the "reality" of the game. Radha, Heir to Keld and Braid of Fire come to my mind, as well as "Oh, I have six lands in play and three other merfolk, that means I can attack with a 10/10 Wake Crasher!". That and the new "Wish" effect. Now we can't get "exiled" cards with Glittering Wish. But hey, Wizards of the Coast already sucked before this, so its logical they would come up with stupid ideas suited for their full-of-**** brains. Mr. Green


Last edited by Lynolf on Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:51 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Magno-
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually like all the changes, if you just take a moment to sit for it, you might understand all.

People think:
Oh no, this is going to change the game. WOW, I'm so going to quit blablablablablablablabla...

Alright, some tricks got exiled Wink But for new players it's more logical...
I'm so happy that I don't have to judge any M10 pre-release... Gjeez,,, Good luck judges o_O
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Ninja87



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think exile's a corny word.. i think banish would have been a better choice.. or just simply "remove"..
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jazzbat



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole "battlefield" idea is really lame. Just really lame. But "casting" spells and "exiling" creatures aren't too bad, imo.

But yeah, I can't believe the combat damage stack is gone. Wizards is trying so hard to attract new players that they're going to alienate old ones. The whole idea of putting a land in every booster was stupid enough to begin with, and now this. I will probably just continue to play with friends by the actual rules.
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Super_Prep



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mogg Fanatic is gone? OMG YAYYYYY (claps hands like a happy retarded kid)

I just hate red decks, don't you?
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LordLink wrote:
I find it amusing that after 6 hours of bitching people still haven't come up with a relevent example other than Mogg Fanatic.


If I read it right it kills STE's ability to block and get sacced as well. As well as any other block and sac method.
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Spyx



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 1188

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can still block with STE and get a land. It just doesn't do 1 dmg in that case.
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LordLink



Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can still block and sac.

What's important is that you can't Trade and sac, hence why Ravager doesn't give a shit about the change.

I just can't figure out why no combat damage on the stack apparently dumbs the game down... you can still play your tricks, just be prepared for your opponent to do something of their own, rather than damage being safely on the stack. Surely that increases the level of skill required by forcing you to read your opponents and analyze what cards could beat your trick?

Bouncing got raped but I'm sure Wizards will adjust things accordingly with new sets.


People just need to think about the implications of the new rules rather than assuming they're dumbing everything down.
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Carnubak



Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole discussion about damage not using the stack anymore painfully reminds me of the discussion about the changes in Sixth Edition (when, you know, damage was announced to use the stack —as well as introducing "the stack" as such, but that's another discussion).
Back then, most players I knew freaked out about how combat damage was not "instantly" killing creatures, and how that was unfair. There were cries everywhere about Wizards "killing the game" and how it would not survive these tremendous changes. But it actually survived, and got better and stronger for it.
I wonder how many of the naysayers actually took the time to try to play a game or two under the new rules before dismissing them. How many set out to think about ways to exploit the new system, instead of trying to fit their old concepts in it with a hammer. I'm pretty sure that every pro worth its salt is wondering about "how will this affect my game?" instead of bitching left and right.
Changes are not bad per se. A changing environmente tests people's mettle, and it's where the fittest strive. If you can adapt yourself to the changes, you'll be at the top, with everyone else running behind you, trying to keep up. It's as good an opportunity to experienced players as it is for new players to get that extra edge.
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clayparson



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, the combat damage changes don't necessarily dumb down the game or eliminate all combat tricks forever. The new changes will create a very slight difference (slight because these changes will only be relevant in specific situations) in the way players must approach combat. It opens new sorts of combat tricks. Combat will be DIFFERENT, not worse.

I think you should all be more upset about Battlefield, Cast, and Exile. Now i have to cast a black lotus? really? Really really lame stuff.
I'm surprised that wotc, in the interest of making everything all flavorable and whatnot, didn't change the wording for "Draw a card" to "Gain more information," or something equally ridiculous.

I also agree with Carnubak, people are acting like the sky is falling just like at the 6th-ed. change. You're all hooked on this game, you won't stop playing, lets just take a deep breathe and relax.
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CalebD
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The exile thing impacts storm decks in 1.5. Now we can't burning wish for that tendrils we put on a mox, or cunning wish for that brain freeze we removed with a flash of insight.

Fortunately the most complex and thus best format, vintage, is unaffected by most of these changes.

I know I'm going to mess up with the new combat damage thing in sealed, though. Many, many times.
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SaTiVa
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 289

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vedrfolner wrote:
magus wrote:
you can't deal 1 less damage to a creature in order to kill it after combat with a sorcery anymore.


Damage still remains after combat yes?


yes but u have to deal lethal to blocker # 1 before u can deal any damage to blocker # 2 ... the blocker order is decided by the attacking player ( of course this only counts when a critter is double blocker).... u cant deal like 2 less than lethal to each blocker than post combat pyroclasm to finish off thier team
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darkwizard42
Level 2 Judge


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a fan of the Battlefield and Casting ideas...

This isn't Dungeons and Dragons, sure its a fantasy world with a very fantastical game, and creatures and mythical things, but the field of play, and playing a spell both seemed quite logical and easy to understand. I didn't think that was a difficult thing to teach new players about.

Loss of the combat damage stack is a tough call. I'm not the best player and I have definitely been owned by a better players combat tricks, but if this is how it was before 6th edition, and worked, then lets see how it works now after 11th edition (M10 w/e).

No mana burn...hmm, idk makes some cards good, some cards bad, emptying mana pools at each step is also something that just makes you play more carefully, takes away some tricks, but nothing serious.

Not allowing Lifelink to stack on itself doesn't seem like it will change the game that much either, again just eliminates some tricks people used to use.

Bounce spells are seriously getting shafted...

The new changes are interesting, but I definitely do not enjoy the "Battlefield" and "Casting" changes.
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Ronnan
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmg not using the stack is p(l)ain retarted
lets just remove anything that might have potential for one player to outplay the other

cause the other wont like that...

i dont know if im willing to learn new rules.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaTiVa wrote:
Vedrfolner wrote:
magus wrote:
you can't deal 1 less damage to a creature in order to kill it after combat with a sorcery anymore.


Damage still remains after combat yes?


yes but u have to deal lethal to blocker # 1 before u can deal any damage to blocker # 2 ... the blocker order is decided by the attacking player ( of course this only counts when a critter is double blocker).... u cant deal like 2 less than lethal to each blocker than post combat pyroclasm to finish off thier team


That is one opportunity which goes away. You may get many others. The new rules makes attacking when the opponent could block your creature more risky, so players would need to find ways to get around the problem. Hence, new opportunities arise. Since combat is now more transparent, there will simply be more combat-related activities in the first main phase (or at EOT), reducing the number of outcomes before you assign attackers. Now you just tap and see what happens, with open mana bluffing tricks. With M10 the "pros" will lose that advantage, but most likely gain it somewhere else.

The mind-game aspect of Magic shifts away from the combat step, but it won't disappear.
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