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M10 (Magic 2010) Rule changes.


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clayparson



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too am sad to see combat damage leave the stack, and i have greater misgivings about the limited number of options for attacking players, but these changes won't be that big a deal. People flipped out at the 6th ed. rules change, but everything worked out.
The change so that mana pools empty at end of phases and steps is interesting though.


BUT most importantly, astral slide has some goofy sounding text with the new terminology.
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FAKE1



Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone post a link to where i can see these rule changes?
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

these changes pushed me over the edge to quitting magic

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/42a
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta learn the fucking game again. For the third time. Well, whatever.

Seriously, I don't get this. Do they really think there are tons of magic players out there without a shop with a proficient judge in it? Seems rather unlikely seeing most shops are run by certified judges... I just don't see what they hope to accomplish with this? Surely the fact that millions already play the game and have learned to play it by the rules in tournaments speaks for the present system being sufficiently simple?


There are a few changes that seem reasonable (I'd count Deathtouch, Lifelink, EOT wordings & possibly the new mulligans as ones), but the removal of manaburn is a bitch, along with the fact that manapool empties between steps. Removes a lot of strategic flexibility from the game, not to mention, manaburn is pretty damn flavourful - removing it seems to go against their general line here.

And Exile is the best word they could come up with for RFG? Really? It doesn't even make any sense most of the time: "I exile all the cards in your graveyard" TF? Also, the Token Ownership; they specifically defended many of their choices as "that doesn't come up that often" - how friggin' often does token ownership come up? Only in casual decks specifically built around the mechanic. Boo-friggin'-whoo, is it really wrong? I mean, who the f cares? All they did was kill some casual decks. Way to go.


I still have no idea how the new "damage dealing" works.


Last edited by Eldariel on Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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EddDydoo



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah this shit makes me want to quit
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ik
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of these changes are so fucked up... like multiple instances of lifelink not stacking? Sad
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magus



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lifelink's not the fucked up part, combat damage is the fucked up part.

i really do not understand the reasoning behind this change. mogg fanatic is completely worthless now, as a constructed card. so many intricate interactions that made the game fun are now lost. denial is now incomparable to pump spells. call to heel sucks hard now. you can't deal 1 less damage to a creature in order to kill it after combat with a sorcery anymore.

the examples are numerous, and probably worthless at this point. other changes, not that big a deal; maybe some good will come out of them, these combat changes are definitely for the worse.
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stall_19



Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the no mana burn rule Wake Thrasher and Mana Drain sure got much better.
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

idk what the big fuss is about. if we stop to think about combat not stacking, we find that in rarely matters outside of limited (a situation where you could gain an advantage off of playing something dmg on stack as opposed to after blockers may come up about once in a 9 round constructed tournament unless you're playing a card that got hosed). In limited formats from M10 and forward, wizards will obviously design cards and formats with the new game rules in mind as opposed the old ones. cards like unsummon probably wont see print, and pump spells may be fewer.

the mulligan rule is easily the biggest change, in that it gives a much greater advantage to the person who is playing first and places a much bigger burden on the die roll....

edit: also, for every card that got worse there's another than got better (and the ones that get better get WAY better! dont believe me?: umezawa's jitte wake thrasher and mana drain are a couple that come to mind)

maybe these two actually balance each other out in that you are more likely to be the aggressor, and thus probably profit more from combat damage shenanigans. (i dont actually think this is the case, but i figured i'd trow it out there)
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

magus wrote:
you can't deal 1 less damage to a creature in order to kill it after combat with a sorcery anymore.


Damage still remains after combat yes?
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golddmaster



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think the changes are great! Very Happy

They will definately improve the future of magic although seeing cards with the older wording on it will annoy me.
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LordLink



Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it amusing that after 6 hours of bitching people still haven't come up with a relevent example other than Mogg Fanatic.

Wizards: Mogg Fanatic is now banned in all constructed formats.

Magic Community: What! Mogg Fanatic is the reason I play magic! I'm going to throw a toaster in my bath now...

Honestly it didn't even see standard play anymore, and wasn't going to get reprinted anyway. =/


Ordering Blockers seems like its adding unnecessary complexities to the game though...
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MikeL123



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually agree with all of their rule changes except the combat damage ones. The fact that you cannot split non-lethal combat damage (for example, the Pyroclasm example above) is just stupid. As is the removal of putting damage on the stack.

The whole fun of "damage on the stack" is you can have your opponent commit to something, and then if you have tricks you can use them after the opponent has committed to something. Now, I have to freaking use Healing Salve BEFORE COMBAT DAMAGE IS ASSIGNED. Congrats, dumbasses, you've actually managed to make Healing Salve WORSE.
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magus



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LordLink wrote:
I find it amusing that after 6 hours of bitching people still haven't come up with a relevent example other than Mogg Fanatic.

Wizards: Mogg Fanatic is now banned in all constructed formats.

Magic Community: What! Mogg Fanatic is the reason I play magic! I'm going to throw a toaster in my bath now...

Honestly it didn't even see standard play anymore, and wasn't going to get reprinted anyway. =/


Ordering Blockers seems like its adding unnecessary complexities to the game though...


I find it amusing that you do not seem to grasp the mechanics behind the example yet; and it's been what, 6 hours?

It's not the value of Mogg Fanatic dropping that is the matter. It is the removal of a perfectly good possibility of interaction, which opened up options for mistakes by either side, which rewards better players. Basically, new cards that are interesting can be designed for this ruleset as well, no problem there; the problem is the removal of these interactions drives the game further to luck rather than skill. I don't mean to say Magic is a game of luck, I am saying that luck is becoming more important, especially in limited.

The removal of this interaction rewards weaker players, which seems to be the idea behind the changes: to simplify the game for lowering the cost of entry. I don't know if this is what magic needs as a competitive game; it might be what it needs as a product.
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Heikki



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LordLink wrote:
I find it amusing that after 6 hours of bitching people still haven't come up with a relevent example other than Mogg Fanatic.

Wizards: Mogg Fanatic is now banned in all constructed formats.

Magic Community: What! Mogg Fanatic is the reason I play magic! I'm going to throw a toaster in my bath now...

Honestly it didn't even see standard play anymore, and wasn't going to get reprinted anyway. =/


Ordering Blockers seems like its adding unnecessary complexities to the game though...


What about every fucking combat trick ever played? Bounce, boost, etc. Now theyre all much worse.

Also it easies the game, with combat dmg stack you could outplay worse players quite often. Not anymore.
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