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Possible New Fae


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
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Momir



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With every thought you have.
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Momir



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You fucking idiot.
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

someone ban mormir?

bftw may have some pretty bad ideas, but he's actively looking for help, etc.

bftw: please please please just take our words for it and play 2-3 jace main? it really is a house...fae ends up working like jace is your engine as much as BB is, and it wins you close to as many games...it's good vs everything, and only slightly less good vs red.
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what decks play incinerate, etc. that you're actually worried about?
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bftw wrote:
what do you mean? it's everywhere!

jund, R/W aggro, i mean i see them like ALL THE TIME, and jace gets owned. i'd much rather kill him than deal 3 to you, or a creature even, and most people i play are the same way, if they know jace is coming they'll hold that incinerate or that banefire or whatever. i would.

not to mention fallout, i haven't even touched down on that. who wouldn't deal it to jace? fallout is fae cryptonite. you can force them to make you draw also with a fallout. or if you can go ahead and get that last 1 on him you will, assuming he's still at 3-4 when he's just in.

cip trigger, fallout, now you have a 1 loyalty PW and you'll have to +2 at least twice. it seriously seems like mulldrifter is better for this deck. it's only 2 more, and it can swing (flier) and two cards can break you with fae. add mannequin to the mix, and it's even faster.


1. where are you playing all these matches vs. red?
2. if the place you are playing fae @ has enough red decks that those would be your reason to not run jace, you should just not run fae.
3. fallout is a big part of why you want to +2 a lot. SPECIFICALLY WHEN YOU FIRST PLAY IT, always go to 5 loyalty if they play fallout. jace also makes it a lot easier to win over fallout
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onecleanceli



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you're fnm meta is 50% red decks, then you're an idiot to run fae at all... and if they incinerate jace instead of you to kill him, then that's awesome, that's 3 points of dmg you didnt take, plus you drew at least 1 card off of him, while focusing their attention away from your dome... its a 2 for 1 at worst
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole milling thing with jace is orignally a stratergy used by swans to beat 5cc. You can do that or simply plus one first and then get jace down to three counters and then +2 again its just basically playing around volcanic fallout.

Jace developes your game alot more than he does your opponets unless you are using the mill stratergy in which case its equal. He is increadbly difficult for control to deal with if got down early so much so it is worth playing a few main deck.

If your deck has the best long term game developing your stratergy even if you are developing your opponents as well is still good.
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EliWHAT



Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

onecleanceli wrote:
if you're fnm meta is 50% red decks, then you're an idiot to run fae at all... and if they incinerate jace instead of you to kill him, then that's awesome, that's 3 points of dmg you didnt take, plus you drew at least 1 card off of him, while focusing their attention away from your dome... its a 2 for 1 at worst


lulz agree, this is why u +2 with jace, he is a house versus red, card advantage plus saves ur face from getting beat if they want him out
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onecleanceli



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliWHAT wrote:
onecleanceli wrote:
if you're fnm meta is 50% red decks, then you're an idiot to run fae at all... and if they incinerate jace instead of you to kill him, then that's awesome, that's 3 points of dmg you didnt take, plus you drew at least 1 card off of him, while focusing their attention away from your dome... its a 2 for 1 at worst


lulz agree, this is why u +2 with jace, he is a house versus red, card advantage plus saves ur face from getting beat if they want him out


see ^^ Smile lol... the thing is, vs red, if you are ready to play jace, but you realize no matter if you -1 or +2 him initially, that he will die next turn, then you are making the wrong play in the first place... if you can successfully drop him, +2 to 5 him, and on their turn, they can take him down to say.... 1-2 counters for their turn, then thats good... that's 1 card for you, 1 card for them (which they are using vs jace probably) plus an attack used against him probably... 3-4 dmg you're saving from your face, on top of 2 essential cards out of their hand... next turn, +2 it again, take him back to 3-4, making them do it again... you've now gained 2 cards, while they are down 3-4 cards + some facial damage... this entire time, you also can be holding back and countering any lethal jace damage, or what have you
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Milling any number of cards does absolutely nothing until he has less than 20 cards left in his library. At that time, milling 8-12 cards could be quite devastating if you have the benefit of inevitability on the board.

Before that (i.e in 99% of all played games), everything else you do with your deck must have priority. You can't even compare Jace's usefulness with Mind Funerals' in UB Faeries - they are in entirely different leagues. If you tap 3 mana in turn 5, leaving two mana open to counter, to play Mind Funeral, the opponent won't counter it because you have done something completely irrelevant (other than confusing them). A Jace, on the other hand, in the same situation, would be such a dangerous move that the opponent would do absolutely everything in their power to get rid of it. It is a game-winning move regardless of the board situation.

I can't see what the benefit of the Borderposts is. You play artifact acceleration in the deck which doesn't accelerate your mana. They can't really replace lands because they need basic lands to work, and they come into play tapped when they're at their best. I would perhaps consider taking a borderpost over useless cards in a draft, but hardly more than that. Play Vivid/Arcane Sanctum instead, if you need the colours.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trotsky1 wrote:
The whole milling thing with jace is orignally a stratergy used by swans to beat 5cc. You can do that or simply plus one first and then get jace down to three counters and then +2 again its just basically playing around volcanic fallout.

Jace developes your game alot more than he does your opponets unless you are using the mill stratergy in which case its equal. He is increadbly difficult for control to deal with if got down early so much so it is worth playing a few main deck.

If your deck has the best long term game developing your stratergy even if you are developing your opponents as well is still good.
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You dont have to let your opponents draw any cards off jace. Even if jace just draws you 3 cards over the course of a turn, its fine. Jace stops you from taking damage, as they have to get rid of it.

Even if you go turn 3 jace, You give it -1 loyalty to draw a card. Then they cast volcanic fallout...sucks to be you right?...Wait...go back a second...IT DOESNT! that is GOOD 4 the fae deck vs red decks. Thats 2 less damage youve had to take, and a volcanic fallout that you dont have to worry about later!

Jace, alot of the time is used as a gaint meatshield. Think of it as the tank and you as the caster.

As for the mill plan...

Its bad, especially without jace in the maindeck. Milling someone gives you no card advantage..As it does nothing to get rid of the threats. It does nothing vs windbrisk heights...i dont know what you mean here. but even if they play heights, and you mill them...they still get a card under heights, which can still be a spell, and an even better one that you just milled them too. Its also not a set number of mills. You can have your opponent flip like Mogg fanatic, Land Land Land out of 4 cards...getting them past bad draws into good ones.

What im trying to say is, casting funeral march is going to put you behind in the game.

Lets say its turn 3. You have 6 cards in hand vs your opponents 7 (since he was on the draw). You play mind funeral and hit 12 cards!(which is about average if 33% of your deck is lands). Seems good to you right?...Well its not...and did absolutely nothing towards you winning the game. Your whole plan of winning now is to mill...which will be harder because youve given up cards to effect an irrelvant gamestate. The size of your opponents library doesnt matter. Even with being milled, your opponent still has 40 cards left in his deck, 20 away from a jace win.

Milling away 12 cards isnt going to help you win..Now your down a card..and still have to handle the 7 cards in your opponents hand..which you now have one less card to handle them with(they are not down 12 cards, as they NEVER had those cards to begin with...as they dont skip drawing a card for the next 12 turns or something...they are still gonna have cards to play. If it was a card that actually had an impact on the immediate game state then it would be worth it.

Face it, your not going to win by milling people that often. So your attempts will fail, and cause you to lose games that you wouldve won if u werent busy wasting turns and precious spells to get rid your opponents library when its just easier to attack for 20 and win (your playing freaking bitterblossom, scion and counters...u figure it out)

Fae is no place for milling really. I can understand doing it with jace, but adding in an extra 4 cards from your sideboard just to do that is downright bad. And in every matchup that u will have a shot of milling (5c control mainly), you only need jace.
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Momir



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You, sir, are a fucking idiot.
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Darrell702



Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your a good FAe player and are playing jace right,
then you shouldnt be questioning it cause its the nuts
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

idk how you dont get this yet...

if we assume 12 cards is average:

we know you wont win by milling in almost all games.
if you and your opponent both have the same number of cards in hand and you play mind funeral, you're down a card, so the advantage you get from mind funeral must equal or exceed value of one of your opponent's cards.
let's alter the rules of the game for just a second to test your theory about mind funeral:
if your opponent is about to draw a card, and instead we say he has to set aside the top 12 cards face down, and instead draw the 13th card down in his deck, is him drawing this card any different to you, his opponent, than him drawing the top card?
neither player has any information about which cards he cannot draw (the top 12) or any information about which cards are left in his deck for him to draw this turn. apply this example to every turn...does it get any better?
in fact, the only difference between this example and a real game is that you can see these 12 cards. so you must decide if the value of both players knowing these cards plus the negative value of your opponent having access to any graveyard-based effects (anathemancer...which i assume you know cannot be countered from the grave) outways the value of the card and 3 mana you've lost that your opponent has not.

i think it's pretty self explanatory that the value is not enough to warrant playing it vs. any deck.
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