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MD deck cards to improve swans matchup (Jund Ramp)


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stone_d
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:53 am    Post subject: MD deck cards to improve swans matchup (Jund Ramp) Reply with quote

Hey, since the new swans cascade deck is a pretty bad matchup (except if I have double pulse) I'm looking for some answers to it. Preferable a creature that can be tutored with primal command.
Any ideas?

My sb:
I currently sb in +3 anathemancer, +4 mind shatter and +1 thought hermorage.
And take out -1 profane command, -2 fall out, -2 colosus, -2 jund charm and -1 loxodon warhammer.
I only play 1 thought hermorage because mind shatter can be sbed in against more different decks and thought hemorage only Swans and Lark.

My current decklist: (I don't really need critisim on my deck if it has nothing to do with the swans matchup)

// Lands
3 [LRW] Forest (4)
4 [SHM] Fire-Lit Thicket
1 [ALA] Mountain (2)
3 [EVE] Twilight Mire
1 [TSP] Swamp (4)
4 [ALA] Savage Lands
3 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
3 [10E] Treetop Village
1 [SHM] Graven Cairns
1 [OV] Karplusan Forest
1 [10E] Llanowar Wastes

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
2 [ALA] Broodmate Dragon
2 [LRW] Cloudthresher
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
2 [MOR] Chameleon Colossus

// Spells
4 [LRW] Fertile Ground
4 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
2 [10E] Loxodon Warhammer
2 [CFX] Volcanic Fallout
2 [ALA] Jund Charm
1 [LRW] Profane Command
2 [LRW] Primal Command
3 [10E] Mind Stone

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [10E] Treetop Village
SB: 3 [ARB] Anathemancer
SB: 4 [MOR] Mind Shatter
SB: 3 [EVE] Snakeform
SB: 2 [10E] Razormane Masticore
SB: 1 [ARB] Thought Hemorrhage
SB: 1 [ARB] Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
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Triggers



Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not just up the thought hem to 4?

I mean, you should be able to cast it on turn3 with a TON of different hands... just muligan effectively and it should be easy.

just thought hem for seismic assault.. and they can only rely on the man lands and swans its self, which you should be able to handle...
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stone_d
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Triggers wrote:
Why not just up the thought hem to 4?

I mean, you should be able to cast it on turn3 with a TON of different hands... just muligan effectively and it should be easy.

just thought hem for seismic assault.. and they can only rely on the man lands and swans its self, which you should be able to handle...


Because the hemorage is usually only for the swans matchup and I prefere some more versatile sb cards.

And more importanly even if I thought hemorage Turn 3. The swans deck SB's out a part of their combo usually and SB in countryside and such.
And I think mind shatter turn 3/4 does a very good job to. + I'm starting to think pithing needle > thought hermorage

Anyways why I'm looking for MAINDECK anser to swans cascade except for pulses and hoping they fail.
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BigJoo



Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemorage is great for the Lark match up as well. So upping to 4 shouldn't be so bad.
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stone_d
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigJoo wrote:
Hemorage is great for the Lark match up as well. So upping to 4 shouldn't be so bad.


Yes, but the mind shatters are good in the mirror and BW tokens and Lark and Swans.
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stone_d wrote:
Triggers wrote:
Why not just up the thought hem to 4?

I mean, you should be able to cast it on turn3 with a TON of different hands... just muligan effectively and it should be easy.

just thought hem for seismic assault.. and they can only rely on the man lands and swans its self, which you should be able to handle...


Because the hemorage is usually only for the swans matchup and I prefere some more versatile sb cards.

And more importanly even if I thought hemorage Turn 3. The swans deck SB's out a part of their combo usually and SB in countryside and such.
And I think mind shatter turn 3/4 does a very good job to. + I'm starting to think pithing needle > thought hermorage

Anyways why I'm looking for MAINDECK anser to swans cascade except for pulses and hoping they fail.


More hemmorage. It is good in multiple matchups. End of thread.
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stone_d
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow... I'm not asking for cards to sb in. I was just wondering if someone knew a card that I can play maindeck that will improve the matchup.

So unless ur advicing me to play everlasting torment or hemmorage main...
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Bushviper



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 281

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terminate kills swans and is far from usless in other matchups
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Triggers



Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they can win even if you try to terminate the swans....

YES we're telling you to MD thought hemorage if you have that much trouble.. as it is decent in all matchups if you know what your doing
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughtseize.
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RavensEffect



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the whole point everyone is trying to say to you is that maybe you SHOULDN'T main deck cards against Seismic Swans. Yes, it might have won in Barcelona, but that doesn't mean everyone and their mother is going to be playing it. If you're so worried about playing completely that deck, then maybe you should maindeck some of the "sb" cards, ala Thought Hemorrhage, everyone suggested. Any kind of naturalize effect(maybe Wickerbough Elder?) sideboard for the Seismic, and Terminates for their Swans and/or sb Countryside Crushers, and you automatically just won the match. Swans is so easy to play against if you're planning on playing against it, but when it comes out blazing as a surprise deck like it did at Barcelona, watch out.

Also someone suggested Thoughtseize, I agree with that idea too.
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totolcc



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

run 2 MD naturalize... In the current meta theres always some useful way to use it... And with all the usefull things in jund i always loved Threaten effects, it may come usefull against swans... (or maybe not Razz)
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aceben3



Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They will usually play Assault first, so instant speed removal for Swans just makes them discard another land. There isn't really anything else you can maindeck besides the 4 Maelstrom Pulse. Thoughtseize, miser's Wickerbough Elder, and Pithing Needle are all worse than the cards you're already playing.

This is what you get for playing a green deck.

4 Mind Shatters is too many though. Wickerbough Elder and Naturalize or an LD sideboard could be good.
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Eldar



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Rochester

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wickerbough Elder is probably your best answer maindeck even as a 1 of.

Also saying thought hemorage is bad in other matchups is a load of crap. That is the same as saying that cranial extraction was bad in kami constructed. Just because you can't splash it in any deck doesn't make it worse in the ones that already play those colors.


You essentially have a few options:
1) Play 1 Elder main deck to tutor for with primal which is fine in a lot of matchups since they will almost always have a target for it.

2) Board more thought hemorage and just try to mull into it.

3) Board better cards for this matchup such as pithing needle/thoughtseize. Swans has a hard time boarding against needle seeing as it can come from any deck and they probably won't board against it in game 2 since they won't have seen it game 1.

4) Board worse cards for this matchup such as naturalize.

5) Accept it as a bad matchup and plan to lose to it if you face it and board for other matchups.

6) Come up with more innovative ways to capitalize on cards that are already main deck by adding cards that are slightly worse that others in your deck that can/can't be tutored for with primal. (Ex. Hag Hedge Mage to bring back pulse). The problem with this is that you will have to run more basics than before and this would effect your main deck. You may be able to get around this by adding cards like rampant growth.

If you have any questions in the future feel free to ask.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they start, drop a Seismic Assault turn 3, then Swans turn 4, Thought Hemorrhage won't help unless you have acceleration.

You need to have 3cc or less answers to Seismic Assault in hand in order to stop them for sure.

Counterspells helps.

Pithing Needle helps. It won't stop them forever, but it can buy you time.

Discard helps, both targeted (like Thoughtseize which removes one of very few non-land cards in their hand before they get to play it, thus slowing them down), and non-targeted.
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