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shyft


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MikeL123



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:42 am    Post subject: shyft Reply with quote

This guy "shyft" has put together one amazing string of wins in Limited... near as I can see, in his last 30 matches, he's 29-1. Is there some secret I'm missing? I feel like a solid 20-30% of magic games are decided simply by who gets mana screwed... though maybe this is just in Alara block?

Shyft, any tips to pass along?
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manascrew doesnt decide 30% games. maybe 5% at most..

Taking right mulligans, building right decks is the key :/
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MikeL123



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, most of us go with 17/23 in limited, maybe 18/22 or 16/24 for extreme cases. There's not much difference there, statistically.

Do you mulligan a 2-land hand if it's your main two colored lands? What if it's not? Does playing/drawing make a difference in this decision?

What about a 5-land hand?
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Rodry



Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you suck, shyft doesnt

thats the secret
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Shyft-
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 117
Location: Your Mom

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:20 am    Post subject: Looks are deceiving Reply with quote

Sure, I have a 29-1 (and 35-2) run in matches going. However, some of those are a little deceiving. For instance there are some REALLY strange formats among those. I like to run a variety of Sealed formats and I have a very significant strength in general card evaluation gleaned from my 15 years of MtG experience. When you have a properly built deck, mana screw really tends to be an issue only about 1 game out of 15 or so. Mana flood is a bigger issue, but can be addressed as well. For instance, when Alara first came out, I was pretty vocal in speaking out against the use of obelisks in limited; I'm pretty sure I've only ever played 1 or 2 (total, not in one deck), and just because I had a bomb-heavy deck and needed to have the fixing to get there. Whenever possible, even with a shard, try to have a main color and secondary colors, or two mains and a splash or splashes. Especially with average competition like here on ML or like at a local tourney or even a PTQ, go with the mana if you have to choose between good mana or good cards. You can lose matches to mana that you would otherwise have won due to bad opponents or badly built opposing decks. 8 mana sources is the number you want for main colors. Once you're at 8 sources, really try to fill out other colors before adding a 9th source of the first; "Eight is Enough". This advice has served me well even in DCI limited; prior to a recent dropoff I T8d 8 straight Sealed PTQs and ran up a 2040 limited rating IRL.
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Shyft-
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 117
Location: Your Mom

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject: Mulliganing Reply with quote

Mulligans in Limited are a very important subject as well. I think that I'm more conservative in mulliganing than most players, but that's especially true when I feel like I'm a better player than my competition. I reasonably regularly keep 6-land hands and get there against average or bad players, rather than risk a mulligan; the flood is like a mulligan, but it's safer than risking a random unplayable or barely playable 6. The better your opponent is, the more marginal hands you should be mulliganing. Preventing mulligans is also important: 2-mana or fewer card draw should be viewed as about .4 land (2-mana land search about .8ish, but only for the first one included), and 3 mana landsearchers about .3. So for instance, I'd happily play 16 land in a heavy green deck with a deadshot minotaur, a pair of elvish visionaries, and an igneous pouncer, but probably would want 18 without those cards. An example of a badly built deck is available at the end of the column at http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/li/37 . Yes, it has 16 land, but it has 20 total dedicated mana sources, and the two worst land-cyclers. If I was drunk off my tookus and built the list in the article, of course I'd have to keep the example hand; 5 mana sources and a cycler is going to be a common occurrence for such a misbuilt pile. Notice that despite all the bombs I call it a pile and would expect to crush that deck with any good Sealed Pool; their card quality may be better than yours but you gain virtual card advantage from the propensity to flood present on the opposing side. In Limited, quantity almost always trumps all.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its nice to agree with every sentiment a better player is saying, I echoed so on the forums of that article.
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MikeL123



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a lot of great advice, I really appreciate it. Now to test it out... Smile
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Aion



Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I would love to read articles written by Shyft and will let him know that the next time he's on in case he doesn't see it here.
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Zoom



Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good posts shyft. You've crammed more strategy into two little posts than is in five of Sadin's word-fests on wizards. I second the request for articles Very Happy
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Quantumdemon



Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's definitely not luck, I've had the pleasure of watching Chris play IRL several times and he is the best player I've seen play, he almost never makes a mistake. I make a request for him to start writing articles too but he's a Dad now so I doubt he has time Sad
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center
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 440

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SugarShark wrote:
its obviously "skill" to take 6 land hands and win with them
as much as it is for the people who keep the same and draw 6 more lands and are dead turn 6

he'll write articles telling what's worked for him
luck works!!!

dci ratings go down because skill eventually runs out


:<

you understand that in some matchups keeping 6 lands is correct to do?
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Quantumdemon



Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, whining about luck being a big factor shows a low skill level. People who never recognize when they mess up and blame flood/screw constantly will never get better and good enough to go on big runs like Shyft- has...if you're having issues not winning with 6 land hands perhaps you should mulligan genius or build a better manabase or draft powerful cards that offset bad draws to mitigate the luck factor. In short if you're losing blame yourself and stop using luck as a crutch to feel better about yourself.
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brentmellow



Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well luck is not really a factor here in theory. The more and more games you play the more good players are going to win and the more bad players are going to lose. As the number of games played approaches infinite luck is actually ruled out and true skill is determine. Obviously, it is difficult to play that many games but I hope I made my point clear. In addition, there are actually a lot of things about this world we don't understand. Maybe there are other forces going on behind winning streaks that we don't have the technology or knowledge to completely comprehend. For example, it was impossible for cavemen to contemplate building nuclear warheads because it was so out of there time period. The same might be true for us. Maybe there is another force to the universe we just can't measure yet. I am hinting at the law of attraction. This quantum physics concept is explained brilliantly in "The Secret" (you can watch it on youtube) and I think it plays a big role in "luck." For example, when LSV went on that mad winning streak was he just lucky. Even though in interviews it seemed as if he did not just care I think that he was manifesting positive energy that kept him up on a massive dominating winning streak.

The premise of my argument of course, can't be proven because we don't yet have the technology to understand things like this. In time however, humans will discover more clues that lead them to better theories that describe the world around us.

Sincerely,
Mushmellow
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|eric|



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 12:54 am    Post subject: hrmm Reply with quote

is this the same Shyft-who ran Boros Swiftblade+Blazing Shoal at a 1.x ptq? Wink
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