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Cascade



 
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nonroker



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:01 am    Post subject: Cascade Reply with quote

How are we goint to do it? The mechanic requires us to shuffle the removed cards before putting them at the bottom of our library. I can't see any way of accomplishing this. My appologies if this topic was already handled somewhere else.
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Kytep



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Cascade Reply with quote

nonroker wrote:
How are we goint to do it? The mechanic requires us to shuffle the removed cards before putting them at the bottom of our library. I can't see any way of accomplishing this. My appologies if this topic was already handled somewhere else.


I personally don't worry much about it, since the probability of actually drawing into those cards tends to be so low that in the vast majority of games, it doesn't matter. But, here are a couple of ideas (the first is the simpler one; the second may be better if the top cards of your library were already manipulated or if you don't want to know the order of the Cascaded cards on bottom):

1) Drag the cards removed by the Cascade trigger onto the desktop, keeping them in in the same order that they were on the top of your library (e.g., keep putting the next card to the right of the last, so they are always in left-to-right order). Then, after Cascade resolves, simply select all of those cards (you can drag to select all of them) and put them all on the bottom at once. If the top cards of your library were already random, and you didn't change that order, then the bottom cards are just as random. In other words, just don't mess with the already-shuffled order.

2) Start off like # 1 above - that is, drag the Cascaded cards to the desktop (however, order doesn't matter in this one). Then, when you're ready to put them on bottom, first place your hand on the desktop in a separate area (shift-drag keeps the cards face-down). Then, draw your entire library. Then, put all of the Cascaded cards into your library (your library should now be entirely composed of your Cascaded cards), and shuffle. Then, return those cards to your desktop (face-down), but keeping the order as in # 1, above. Then, use the Action menu to return your hand to your library, shuffle your library, and put the newly-shuffled, face-down, Cascaded cards on the bottom of your library in the same order that you dragged them to your desktop. Then pick up your original hand again.

Like I said, I usually just don't worry about it (although in actual practice I use the technique in # 1, as it's very easy and natural for me).

Any other ideas?

Kytep
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turn all cards face down, then drag them to bottom at once.
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MikeL123



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CMA-Flippi wrote:
turn all cards face down, then drag them to bottom at once.


This doesn't randomize. I am 100% able to control which card ends up closest to the top in the library via this method. I flip the cards over and try to shuffle them real fast with my mouse, then put to library. Still no guarantee, but it's slightly better.
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Daffie999



Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way I can see is to create a counter (create a dummy token card and add counters) for the number of cards you put "shuffled" on the bottom of the deck. If you ever get down far enough in your deck that your cards remaining equals the counter than you shuffle.

Other cards that require you to shuffle your deck would reset the counter.

Seems trivial 99% of the time though.

*edit*
You'd also have to keep track of any cards placed on the bottom in a specific order by your choice or something like bant charm. Then make sure to remove those cards before you shuffle and put them back in order after.

aka too much work.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So WoTC came up with something that can't be done in non-MTGO software? Well at least not very easy.
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nonroker



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the counter method, it might be a bit of work, but its better than not doing anything. The real reason why cascade has the shuffle before putting it at the bottom clause is to stop you building a deck with a low costing cascade card (one that costs less than all your other cards) that will allow you to put your deck in any order you please after playing it. The shuffle clause stops this nicely.
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alsorhombus



Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Drag the cards removed by the Cascade trigger onto the desktop, keeping them in in the same order that they were on the top of your library (e.g., keep putting the next card to the right of the last, so they are always in left-to-right order). Then, after Cascade resolves, simply select all of those cards (you can drag to select all of them) and put them all on the bottom at once. If the top cards of your library were already random, and you didn't change that order, then the bottom cards are just as random. In other words, just don't mess with the already-shuffled order.


how retarded are you -- its not fucking random if you know the order.
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nonroker



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its definetely a problem now. If the deck has a large amount of Cascade cards drawing into the cards becomes easy. I played against a deck yeserday that played almost only cascade cards. Or at least that was how it felt. And he just grabbed them and put them at the bottom. It felt flawed.
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