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Ala Ala Cfx 4-3-2-2 No 14.


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MikeL123



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they're not killing your guys "to keep up", they're killing your guys to stay ahead. Manaforce Mace is, in many situations, a "win more" card. I dunno, for me, it's a 5th pick.
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeL123 wrote:
they're not killing your guys "to keep up", they're killing your guys to stay ahead. Manaforce Mace is, in many situations, a "win more" card. I dunno, for me, it's a 5th pick.


and he would've got it 8th!! Its not a win more card, it makes it so your dudes can actually start swinging. a 2/2 cant swing into say a mosstodon, but now with mace it can. and then after combat you switch it to a different dude that can block the said mosstodon.
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MikeL123



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asamodius, look at your example. If you have a 2/2 staring down a 5/3, you've been taking 5 a turn for some amount of time. So making your guy 5/5 allows you to either race in a game where you're already behind, or spend a turn and a half worth of mana to play a sorcery speed buff so you can trade. And while you spend 7 mana over two turns to make your 2/2 a 5/5 so you can race or trade, presumably they're playing something else.

I'm not saying the 2/2 was the right call with pick 7. Just that Manaforce Mace is overrated by some folks, in my opinion. It's got the allure of a bomb, but it's also got the 7-mana-cc of a bomb as well.
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeL123 wrote:
asamodius, look at your example. If you have a 2/2 staring down a 5/3, you've been taking 5 a turn for some amount of time. So making your guy 5/5 allows you to either race in a game where you're already behind, or spend a turn and a half worth of mana to play a sorcery speed buff so you can trade. And while you spend 7 mana over two turns to make your 2/2 a 5/5 so you can race or trade, presumably they're playing something else.

I'm not saying the 2/2 was the right call with pick 7. Just that Manaforce Mace is overrated by some folks, in my opinion. It's got the allure of a bomb, but it's also got the 7-mana-cc of a bomb as well.


one, the guy will be a 6/6. not a 5/5, so its not a trade at all. It puts your guys above theirs, so as i said they have to use removal or tricks on it or they cant attack.

Its not overrated. Its just underrated because you dont know how to use it properly. Granted, it does cost 7 mana to use the first time. But this is a slow format with alot of mana accel avaible. And in his deck it would give his dudes +4/+4.

Most of the time you play it, equip it to a dude and dont attack. that way they can only attack with evasion dudes . Then you start swinging the NEXT TURN. and then you move it to a new dude that you already had in play or just cast.
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MikeL123



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah of course, because all 4-color decks always have all 4 basic lands in play on turn 4, 5, or 6.

And that's an excellent three-turn plan to take back the momentum... again, assuming our hypothetical opponent does nothing during those three turns.

Manaforce Mace, go.
Equip, go.
Attack. Re-equip, go.

Really? That's the plan? Maybe if you're facing down hill giant.dec or something. I dunno. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeL123 wrote:
Ah of course, because all 4-color decks always have all 4 basic lands in play on turn 4, 5, or 6.

And that's an excellent three-turn plan to take back the momentum... again, assuming our hypothetical opponent does nothing during those three turns.

Manaforce Mace, go.
Equip, go.
Attack. Re-equip, go.

Really? That's the plan? Maybe if you're facing down hill giant.dec or something. I dunno. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


Yes i hope by time you get to 5 mana that you should have 4 land types in play, assuming we drafted fixing highly, which trostky1 did. And thats when mace would be at its worst. Its best on turn 7 or 8. when you can play and equip it to a dude that can block your opponents creatures (therefor making him unable to attack still having a land in play. This is how you play mace and win with it. Its not hard for a deck to get to that because all the decks that place mace should imo play 18 lands. Not to mention stuff like a sphere and obelisks and all the other ramp and fixing avaible in this draft format.

And at this point of the game (the late game ...which mace is a late game card. And there is nothing wrong with it being a late game card, because it wins games. And if you think you shouldnt play a card cause its a late game winner, youre wrong because in a slow format like AAC you want to have stuff that can break thru to win.

When you are in the late game you can play move the mace around each turn and still cast a spell. And if you have bigger spell that you have to cast, jsut dont attack...its that simple...you dont have to force your self to race. You have the option to not attack, which is going to force your opponent to not attack either.
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dv8r



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asamodius: to explain why mace isn't the bomb you think it is, whilst at the same time actually being the bomb you say it is, I think requires quite advanced draft theorising, and here isn't the right place to discuss it, come find me on mirc.

I agree with you on mace being an out and out bomb, but I disagree that it was the pick in this situation.
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dv8r wrote:
asamodius: to explain why mace isn't the bomb you think it is, whilst at the same time actually being the bomb you say it is, I think requires quite advanced draft theorising, and here isn't the right place to discuss it, come find me on mirc.

I agree with you on mace being an out and out bomb, but I disagree that it was the pick in this situation.


I could understand it not being that good in this deck. But its still better then an off color (he only ran 1 swamp) 2 drop that is only gonna be boarded in against base white decks.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew at the time, that if I picked the mace it would not be played at all, so the card for the sideboard is better.
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trotsky1 wrote:
I knew at the time, that if I picked the mace it would not be played at all, so the card for the sideboard is better.


....and why wouldnt you play the mace? if you had drafted it, it would have been in the deck for sure. i cant imagine why you wouldnt want to play it. You were playing for colors and didnt think you would play the mace? Being able to give your dudes +4/4 and switch it back and forth is insane.

Taking a pointless sideboard card over a maindeck card is not a good idea.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not find it that good, it certainly is not what this deck wants.
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