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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
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caesarthehun



Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw a deck like this beat a RWcruise, the cruise player stood up and said out loud " SHIELD OF THE OVERSOUL??? WHAT THE HELL??? THIS IS RIDICULOUS!". You have the surprise factor EVERY time.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have Reveillark just for SGC and Heartmender?
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Bozo



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol you beat faeries 80% after board lol lol
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alvaro202



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-1 Reveilark
-1 volcanic fallout
-1 path
+3 firespout

This is one way to go. If you are deciding to run firespout, then you don't need 4 volcanic fallout. A 3 of firespout is fine. The suggestion above is only if you are trying to main board firespout. Depending on your local metagame this may or may not be a good idea. I find having 6 field wipes in mainboard is stupid and can cost you a first game win that would typically have been in your favor had that firespout been another card.

You can also sideboard firespout, following the same loss to reveilark, volcanic, and path for 3 safehold elite's, and run 2 firespout in side replacing the 2 guttural responses (which in my opinion is a horrible card in a deck with the curve you have)

It's really hard to see how any card arangement will affect tournament play, but its safe to assume that extra field wipe in sideboard is superior to gutteral, especially since the firespout is better against all tribal and token deck, where gutteral is only useful against 5cc and faeries. You will have to find out what is your least favorable match up and decide what cards to play with.

1 last thing, running more than 1 path without celestial purge's in your sideboard is silly. It is great spot removal as a 1 of in just about any matchup. It's a horrible thing to have 2 of and accelerate you opponent into the mana they need to outpace you. When you have celestial purges in side its ok to have multiple paths in main because you can side in the celestial purges against red/black decks and get great cheep instant speed removal with literally no negatives.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason 5c wins against that deck is that it is designed to be resilient and difficult to stop in the long game, but no matter how many persist creatures and come-backs your deck is designed to do, it will still not be enough to win against all that late-game power.

So either make the deck faster, or ignore the poor 5c matchup and try to make the deck better against anything else.
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TacoMaster



Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddkid44 wrote:
all people are saying on how bad it is its like all anyone on this site can do its like they cant give advice thats all they d\o is just say it sucks well whats your advice weezy what do i take out and add


Welcome to the internet?
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two modes in magic - either you defend or you attack. A good deck is prepared for either one or the other, or it is prepared to do both at the same time. The latter requires lots of card drawing.

Wrath of God clears the board. Why do you want to do that with lots of your own creatures in play? In that case you are winning.

You need to lower the curve of your deck and go aggro, or the other path is to design the deck to be lark something, with more powerful mid/late game spells.

The latter makes the deck weak against 5c control because they draw more cards.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddkid44 wrote:
i want to use wrath because my creatures cant die they have persist so it dosent matter if i use wrath and i want to put ajani in deck and use persist creatures defend him so i can get his last ability off


I have tried to tell you that wrathing your persist creatures isn't a good game plan. If you don't understand why or don't want to, I can't help you.

The good thing about Ajani Vengeant is not as much that if its last ability goes off, you win the game, as it is that this fact draws a lot of resources from the opponent. You don't ignore Ajani Vengeant... for long. The game plan of allocating lots of resources to keep him alive long enough to use his final ability defeats his very purpose.
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JSUOversoul



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had you actually paid attention to what was said to you instead of coming up with reasons to defend your not-so-great choices, you'd realize that there has been advice offered to you, but you refuse to take it. Fact is, YES, Wrath of God is TERRIBLE against Faeries. I have trouble believing for a second that your matchup versus Faeries after sideboard is 80%. If that's actually how often you've beaten it, then I'd love to see this "copy of a Pro Tour list" that you say they run. Either it's not, or they're one crappy Faeries player. Point is, you asked for advice, people tried to give it to you, but instead of taking it, you rejected it and basically kept defending WORSE ideas than those given to you by others. So, I agree with whoever told you to take that deck to regionals & see how often you beat a Faerie deck with it there. You're kidding yourself if you think you have a good matchup against Faeries just because you play Banefire and Volcanic Fallout. Is Fallout good? Yes, but Faeries doesn't just auto-scoop when they run up on a deck that includes them. They still have 4 Thoughtseize post-board & Vendillion Clique to take them away from you, not to mention all the countermagic they run. I'd love to see your deck beat a Faerie deck that curves out with T1 Thoughtseize taking your Fallout, T2 Bitterblossom, T3 Vendillion Clique taking a Wrath, & T4 Cryptic or Mistbind Clique. Good luck with that. Go ahead & take it to regionals as-is. Then maybe you'll learn to listen to players who actually know the matchups, and know why your deck is flawed. Rolling Eyes

:steps off soapbox:
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KevinJonas



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weezy is an **** with anger management issues; just ignore him. there are better ways to help people than calling them and their decks terrible and telling them that they're totally wrong.

the deck is not bad, but it doesn't need 4 wrath AND 4 fallout maindeck. you should probably play 4 or 5 in all, as they are very bad versus control decks, and you don't want 8 dead cards against decks where the games are going to go long. move the others to the sideboard. reveillark probably needs some more targets. birds should be replaced with rampant growth or something that doesn't die to all your mass removal spells.

you'd probably be better off dropping the aggressive cards and becoming mainly a control deck. maybe cut the shields, liege, birds, heartmenders, and a wrath and a fallout for ajani vengeant, rampant growth or a card similar to it, a few more lark targets, and possibly elspeth. another path would also be good.

this would make your deck strong, because you can be the control deck versus aggro with your mass removal and annoying creatures like finks and lark, and against control you can be the aggressor with cards like finks, garruk, elspeth, and your man-lands, which are very difficult for them to deal with. faeries may be a bit tougher, but certainly not unwinnable, and you seem to be doing well against the people at your store already.

good luck, and ignore impolite trolls like weezy.
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zeratul734



Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddkid, i wish i could help you more, but you need to learn how to use the period. It's located right beneath L and ;

I think i see what the deck is doing, and it looks like a meta deck. Give me some stats on your FNM meta, it seems like even the MD choices are reliant on what they're playing.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Listen. Here is what you say:

A. I can't beat 5c control and RW Cruise Control

B. I don't want to build a competitive deck.


... do you see why people are continuing to say that you need to listen to what people are saying?

THE PREMISE OF YOUR DECK DOESN'T WORK!!!!

It doesn't matter which cards you add and which you keep. Heartmender sucks, has always sucked and always will suck. It does nothing - the situation in which his ability would be good is so narrow that it requires more skill to actually conjure up that image than to make a deck in which it could happen at all.

Persist isn't very good in other creatures than Kitchen Finks.


If this is still fuzzy to you, I can clarify further:

If you play against competitive tier 1 decks, you have two choices. Either you play a competitive deck yourself, or you build a deck designed to beat the particular decks you play against.

Against 5c control and RW cruise, counterspells are good. Build a HEAVY counter control deck with lots of draw and specific answers to specific threats. Preferably UW or UWB, since you need hard removal. They would be helpless.
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KevinJonas



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weezy wrote:
Quote:
you seem to be doing well against the people at your store already.


Rofl...Kevin, in your new deck, Lark has no targets.


KevinJonas wrote:

maybe cut the shields, liege, birds, heartmenders, and a wrath and a fallout for ajani vengeant, rampant growth or a card similar to it, a few more lark targets, and possibly elspeth.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gaddock Teeg
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zeratul734



Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vedrfolner wrote:


It doesn't matter which cards you add and which you keep. Heartmender sucks, has always sucked and always will suck. It does nothing - the situation in which his ability would be good is so narrow that it requires more skill to actually conjure up that image than to make a deck in which it could happen at all.

If you play against competitive tier 1 decks, you have two choices. Either you play a competitive deck yourself, or you build a deck designed to beat the particular decks you play against.



Heartmender is not a bad card, but it does have a big problem with PtE. That card alone almost makes it not worth playing; unless, that is, people don't play it.

The second part of what he said is so very true. Unless you're playing casual, if you aren't playing a tier 1 deck you need to have hate cards like it's your job. The recurrance engine is excellent, but you need to tailor both MD and SB to your meta. What do you see? how much of it? What do you have the most problems with? Ask yourself these questions, and then build around that. For example, if you see a lot of white, you need a replacement for heartmender, or you need to make it less reliable on him. I don't really think there's any other option, unless you have a way to protect him from 1-mana RFGs. Also beware of blightning, it usually runs magma spray.

On the other hand, in a meta with lots of faeries, heartmender is a good call. If it resolves, they can't do anything about it, and your gutturals may go a long way towards making sure that happens. It seems like this would actually stack up well against faeries, at least on a good draw.

Post your meta (as well as you know) and your MUs, and we can help you from there.

And 3-4x teeg in the side goes a long way to winning a matchup; in my meta, there's a lot of hallowed burial, which is the last thing your deck wants to see.
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