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Cruel 'n' Toast Standard


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mTk-Away
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To R3wind and all others:
"Today I will first have lunch, THEN I will go jogging."
"I like you more THAN chocolate!"
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yokai



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gypsy wrote:
jace is better than mulldrifter, path to exile is better than most of your removal, you should be playing your own ajanis, bant charm is overrated, plumveil is better than wall 100% of the time, you should be playing broken ambitions and im pretty sure u dont need 2 cruels and a nicol bolas



LOL
mull > jace .
no coments
Path of Exile is good , but whan my opponent keeps with a hand and keeps with few lands , I will not make him search 4 a land to regroup his manabase...
in the begin of the game it is bad , in the late game , anyone spot removal is better....
condemn > Path of Exile
i like broken ambitions , i'm serarching slot 4 it
i realy need 2 cruel and 1 bolas
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yokai



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spyx wrote:
Mind Spring > Tidings?


no , tidings ,> mind spring
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yokai



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ggerg wrote:
child of alara, and/or ajani vengeant please


child of alara smells bad
ajani is good , but I prefer liliana
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yokai



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R3wind wrote:
Umm yeah Path to Exile is so much better then Condemn. The only reason to play Condenm is you can only play 4 Path to Exile.

Control decks need at least 4 spot removal spells in the main or side.

You also need at least one of Glen Elendra Archmage and Ethersworn Adjudicator. Both cards are pure card advantage if you get them online. Speaking of that Jace is a lot better then Mulldrifter. I run Mulldrifters for very late game beatings.


condemn > Path of Exile in this deck
I use 6 spot removals in MD(maw , condemn and charm)
Ethersworn Adjudicator is good , it boes to my SB
thanks
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Hirotsu



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

// Lands
1 [EVE] Cascade Bluffs
2 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
2 [SHM] Mystic Gate
2 [EVE] Flooded Grove
2 [LRW] Vivid Marsh
2 [LRW] Vivid Meadow
3 [LRW] Vivid Grove
4 [LRW] Vivid Creek
2 [UNH] Island
1 [10E] Caves of Koilos
4 [SHM] Reflecting Pool

// Creatures
2 [LRW] Cloudthresher
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
1 [EVE] Nucklavee
4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [ALA] Ajani Vengeant
1 [LRW] Liliana Vess
1 [CFX] Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker

// Spells
2 [ALA] Bant Charm
3 [ALA] Esper Charm
1 [SHM] Firespout
1 [ALA] Cruel Ultimatum
4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
2 [MOR] Negate
1 [10E] Pyroclasm
2 [LRW] Makeshift Mannequin
3 [10E] Wrath of God
1 [CFX] Banefire
1 [CFX] Volcanic Fallout

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Cloudthresher
SB: 1 [ALA] Ajani Vengeant
SB: 3 [10E] Flashfreeze
SB: 2 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [MOR] Mind Shatter
SB: 1 [SHM] Oona, Queen of the Fae
SB: 2 [10E] Condemn
SB: 2 [ALA] Infest
SB: 2 [CFX] Banefire


Couple of changes I've made on my own that I forgot to update my MWS list with:

-4 Kitchen Finks
+4 Rhox War Monk
-1 Cloudthresher (in the sideboard)
+1 Volcanic Fallout (in the sideboard)

The main card that's in there that I haven't been able to test quite yet is Nicol Bolas. But it's not a matter of not having the mana to do it, it's a matter of the games that I've gotten to this point, I was casting board sweepers to keep myself alive instead of casting him, and after stalling a few turns, the banefire would come up instead.

So the MAIN change I'm probably gonna do is:

-1 Nicol Bolas
+1 Banefire or Esper Charm

You may wonder why I'm running the weird package of 1 Pyro/1 Fallout/1 Firespout/3 Wraths, but here's why.

Pyro gets in on turn 2 and wipes a quick rush. Fallout is an instant and is useful when they wanna animate mutavaults/faerie conclave. Firespout kills anything 3 and under. And wrath...well you know, lol.

Testing so far has given favorable results, and with the unique sideboard, it actually gives you more options. The thing is: If I do the bolas swap with banefire over esper charm, I'm probably going to take them out of the sideboard entirely and find another option.
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yokai



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R3wind wrote:
You really do not need Wispmare if you have maindeck Esper Charm. I really think that is a wasted slot. I would change that out for one Ethersworn Adjudicator and one Loxodon Warhammer.

Okie the rest of the sideboard is kind of a big mess inho.

Mind Shatter should be Scepter of Fugue.

Story Circle gets stoped by Torment and Pithing Needle by RDW. I would cut one for sure. Wickerbrough Elder would be a great one of in the side.

I also think that you should ether run Fallout or Sprout not both. It's really a meta call. Cut one of the Cruel for the Cloudthresher from the side. That let's you run Sprout in the main and still be safe.

Know for the last slot. You need a Relic of Pro to help hate out Cruise and Unearth.

Also be sure to side in Needles vs Unearth as it may be the only way to win the match. That deck is so fast.

So the new side should be.

3 Pithing Needle
3 Story Circle
2 Scepter of Fugue
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Wickerbrough Elder
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Ethersworn Adjudicator
1 Relic of Progenitus or Primal Command

If I was to run a greedy control deck like Cruel Control then, I would have to make sure that I had at least one card to help EVERY matchup.

It's my belief that the meta is going to speed up over the next weeks.


Belive , I need wispmare...bitter wins games...i cant depend of the charms to destroy the blossoms
Ethersworn Adjudicator is good . but wispmare is better
mind shatter > figure
Relic of Progenitus also removes my grave , I use ultimatum , better dont use it
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yokai



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gypsy wrote:
theres no reason to play mannequin in the first place


[2]
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yokai



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hirotsu wrote:
// Lands
1 [EVE] Cascade Bluffs
2 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
2 [SHM] Mystic Gate
2 [EVE] Flooded Grove
2 [LRW] Vivid Marsh
2 [LRW] Vivid Meadow
3 [LRW] Vivid Grove
4 [LRW] Vivid Creek
2 [UNH] Island
1 [10E] Caves of Koilos
4 [SHM] Reflecting Pool

// Creatures
2 [LRW] Cloudthresher
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
1 [EVE] Nucklavee
4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [ALA] Ajani Vengeant
1 [LRW] Liliana Vess
1 [CFX] Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker

// Spells
2 [ALA] Bant Charm
3 [ALA] Esper Charm
1 [SHM] Firespout
1 [ALA] Cruel Ultimatum
4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
2 [MOR] Negate
1 [10E] Pyroclasm
2 [LRW] Makeshift Mannequin
3 [10E] Wrath of God
1 [CFX] Banefire
1 [CFX] Volcanic Fallout

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Cloudthresher
SB: 1 [ALA] Ajani Vengeant
SB: 3 [10E] Flashfreeze
SB: 2 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [MOR] Mind Shatter
SB: 1 [SHM] Oona, Queen of the Fae
SB: 2 [10E] Condemn
SB: 2 [ALA] Infest
SB: 2 [CFX] Banefire


Couple of changes I've made on my own that I forgot to update my MWS list with:

-4 Kitchen Finks
+4 Rhox War Monk
-1 Cloudthresher (in the sideboard)
+1 Volcanic Fallout (in the sideboard)

The main card that's in there that I haven't been able to test quite yet is Nicol Bolas. But it's not a matter of not having the mana to do it, it's a matter of the games that I've gotten to this point, I was casting board sweepers to keep myself alive instead of casting him, and after stalling a few turns, the banefire would come up instead.

So the MAIN change I'm probably gonna do is:

-1 Nicol Bolas
+1 Banefire or Esper Charm

You may wonder why I'm running the weird package of 1 Pyro/1 Fallout/1 Firespout/3 Wraths, but here's why.

Pyro gets in on turn 2 and wipes a quick rush. Fallout is an instant and is useful when they wanna animate mutavaults/faerie conclave. Firespout kills anything 3 and under. And wrath...well you know, lol.

Testing so far has given favorable results, and with the unique sideboard, it actually gives you more options. The thing is: If I do the bolas swap with banefire over esper charm, I'm probably going to take them out of the sideboard entirely and find another option.


I used a list like this
manekin run
also finks , plumoveil run
nucklavve cutted , then broodmate runned
thanks
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess that Yokai does not need our help.

Look at pro tour lists. None of them used Wispmare that I saw.

I will repost my sideboard that you should be using. I will also share with one more time in the hope that you look outside your experiance to learn from someone with defferant experiances.

3 Pithing Needle
3 Story Circle
2 Scepter of Fugue
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Wickerbrough Elder
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Ethersworn Adjudicator
1 Relic of Progenitus

Pithing Needle is needed for stoping Cruise and Unearth decks. They are way faster then most of your removal. You must find a Wrath of God to win. Needle is also very good at stopping Man-lands. That is something your build is lacking. Condemn is not going to do it. Pithing Needles also stop a lot of other things like, Planeswalkers, Figure of Destiny, ect...

Story Circle is kinda dumb but techy also. True Story Circle gets hated out in game three. The upside to running is if they are not looking for it in game two then you can get that game. If you won game one then that will never get hated in game three.

Scepter of Fugue is the anti Jace in the 5 color and Fae matches. It's devistating in the fact that you can slip it past early counter magic.

Archmage is just as important as Scepter of Fugue in control mirror matches. It is also helpful vs spell heavy decks like RDW.

Wickerbrough Elder is more Enchantment and the only Artifact removal that you should need. A 4/4 body and card advantage is good.

Ethersworn Ajudicator is more spot removal. This guy is so nuts. After you sweep with Wrath of God, setup with Archmage then Ajudicator. Like I said before a 4/4 body and card advantage is good. Also he flys and untaps himself. This guy can own the board.

Loxodon Warhammer is great vs RDW and BW Tokens so it's a keeper.

Relic is more hate for the Cruise, Unearth, and Kithkin-Lark matches. If you have to wipe out both graves so what? It's not like it hurts your deck like it hurts theirs.

So I hope that you understand why you can't hate out Fae only. Cards like Wispmare are too narrow for a deck like Cruel Control to run. Well for that matter so is Story Circle. If anyone has a better card for that slot please speak up.

I think that Resounding Thunder/Scream would fit the slot better.
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Hirotsu



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R3wind wrote:


I think that Resounding Thunder/Scream would fit the slot better.


imo,

scepter of fugue or mind shatter (call me crazy, i still like mind shatter better) is better than resounding scream, and banefire is better than resounding thunder
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yokai



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noobmellow wrote:
one word. ethersworn cannonist= 2 mana teferi


sure , but is crap(y)
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yokai



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canonist smells bad in cruel

3 Pithing Needle > I already use it
3 Story Circle > I dont like =/ it's good , but i dont like
2 Scepter of Fugue > it's nice , bur I prefer mind shatter
2 Glen Elendra Archmage > I already ude it ^^
2 Wickerbrough Elder > nice , i'll change wispmare 4 it
1 Loxodon Warhammer > I dont like it in this deck , it likes good, but i prefer dont use
1 Ethersworn Adjudicator > beeeeerey nice , i'll use
1 Relic of Progenitus > I dont like to use It with curel =/

thanks
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Acid_Christ



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 799

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop comparing the Canonist to Teferi. Its nothing like him.
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yokai



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noobmellow wrote:
cannon>teferi

sorry. forgot to make that specification.

hes nothing like him.... cuz hes better


please stop speaking about this big peace of shit in my cruel , canonist is good , but nt in the cruel.
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