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[Peasant] Banned/Rules List



 
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Magno-
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:05 am    Post subject: [Peasant] Banned/Rules List Reply with quote

I'm going to make more 'Vintage Peasant' mini's. And for that, we need a banlist.

At my game place we have a Peasant tournament every last friday of the month. And we actually like the banlist. So I took that banlist to get a healthy metagame. This list is in use since 29-06-2008.


Rules
* No more than five 5 uncommon cards.
* No rare cards.
* Decks should be atleast 60 cards.
* Decks should contain atleast 55 commons.
* Sideboards should be 15 cards.
* There may be no more than 4 copies of any single card except basic land.

Banned cards:
- Jeweled Bird
- Bazaar of Baghdad
- Berserk
- Diamond Valley
- Library of Alexandria
- Mana Drain
- Brain Freeze
- Strip Mine
- Frantic Search
- Sol Ring
- Skullclamp
- Tendrils of Agony
- Ancient Den
- Darksteel Citadel
- Great Furnace
- Seat of the Synod
- Tree of Tales
- Vault of Whispers
- All commons and uncommons from unhinged and unglued

For rarity reference, gatherer is final:
http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/

This means for example:
maze of ith = uncommon.
mishra's factory = uncommon
serendib efreet = rare


Grtzzz,
Magno-


Last edited by Magno- on Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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ShaunD



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artifact lands aren't banned in mtgo pauper, why would they be banned in this format since they're basically the same, and if your going to ban then, why not ban lotus petals.
Also, why are you banning cards like Tendrils and Brain Freeze, it looks like your directly targeting decks that you would perfer to not play against.
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ShaunD



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

also, according to your rules, i can play 4x of each mox, since they were printed as commons and they're not on your banned list. nice job.
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Magno-
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShaunD wrote:
also, according to your rules, i can play 4x of each mox, since they were printed as commons and they're not on your banned list. nice job.
First of all, read the post before you start bitching about the list.
Second of all. Moxes are Rares according to Gatherer.

We have a peasant tourney every last friday in the month. So we know what cards are just to strong in Vintage Peasant

Tendrils is capable of making a Turn 1 kill in Vintage Peasant. That's why I got banned.
Brain Freeze was already banned before we started playing it here.

This is the banlist we use since 29-06. At that time, Tendrills was already banned. And the organizers here, decided to ban Affinity. Because it's capable of making a turn 3 kill and it's almost impossible to stop it.

Also in France (Where also is a big Peasant community) they got the same individual bannings.
We both made our own peasant magic league and we didn't know anything about eachother. They banned tendrills earlier, but we banned affinity earlier.

Our Banlist is here: (It's in dutch)
http://magicgroningen.editboard.com/peasant-f28/peasant-magic-bannings-t503.htm

The french Banned list is here: (In french)
http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/forum/sujet.php?ref=364293

The only difference is that they have Mishra's Factory (Common), Gorilla Shaman (Uncommon) and Maze of Ith (Common)
Where we have them as following: Mishra's Factory (Uncommon), Gorilla Shaman (Common) and Maze of Ith (Uncommon)

That's because we use Gatherer and they? I have no idea. I can't read french.

I don't have anything to do with any of the 2 list, because I didn't make them. I just copied our, because it's easy to understand and it makes a great meta.
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NahHolmes



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations on making a scrub out peasant banned list when the normal peasant banned list didn't have any problems with it.

here is the real peasant banned list for reference, when you use french rules as the basis you lose by default.
Jeweled Bird
Timmerian Fiends
Bronze Tablet
Brain Freeze
Ali From Cairo
Bazaar of Baghdad
Berserk
Candelabra of Tawnos
Diamond Valley
Juzam Djinn
Library of Alexandria
Mana Drain
Mishra’s Workshop
and Strip Mine counts as uncommon.

anything more is overkill.
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

expecting to run tournaments on here with your own banlist isnt going to work.

whenever someone is going to join your tournament they will use the ban list on the site. http://www.magic-league.com/guide/other_formats.php#Peasant

expecting everyone to follow your own special rules set isnt gonna happen. i mean, are they gonna get a game loss cause they followed the site rules instead of actually having read this topic to see your modified list?

If you want to play peasant on this site, i would highly suggest using the site rules. Otherwise you can explain why thier getting game loses for using commons not on the ban list.
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Magno-
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great that you guys dislike the lists, but I wonder how many of you play Peasant atleast once a month (like me).

Quote:
anything more is overkill.

Hell no. That banlist last got updated at Thursday 26 august 2004 at 4:48:34.

2004... we live in 2009 now. So loads of new cards!
4 simple examples why tendrills had to be banned:
Manamorphose (2008)
Rite of Flame (Released 2006)
Simian Spirit Guide (2007)
Chromatic Star (2006)

These cards just help Tendrills to much, and that's why Tendrills got banned here. People can still play Empty the Warrens, but there are enough sideboard options.

- Frantic Search:
Prosperity+High Tide+Feldon's Cane was also a deck that just was too good. By banning Frantic Search, the deck lost it's main engine and since then, it wasn't as broken anymore. It's still playable. But not good.

- Skullclamp:
Kobolds? Elfs? Hell no, skullclamp engine is to good and seriously unfun. Even better then the Tendrills engine. Skullclamp wasn't banned in Standard for no reason.

- Sol Ring:
Just powers out affinity to quick. That way it's near to impossible to disrupt.

About the artifact lands:
If it was me to suggest, I would drop the artifact lands and add cranial plating to the banlist and make it:
- Jeweled Bird
- Bazaar of Baghdad
- Berserk
- Diamond Valley
- Library of Alexandria
- Mana Drain
- Brain Freeze
- Strip Mine
- Frantic Search
- Sol Ring
- Skullclamp
- Tendrils of Agony
- Cranial Plating
- All commons and uncommons from unhinged and unglued

But that should be tested first offcourse.

Your list doesn't contain Unhinged or Unglued. These sets got some 'broken' cards which are totally unfun and not really useable with MWS.


Like I said before, the banlist that I provided in first place, is a list that is played two totally different places and both places like it.

I already spoke with somebody about it, and if it is up to me, this should be the new banlist on the site (Without arti-lands and with Cranial Plating).

1 thing is sure: The old list is just outdated and doesn't make an healthy metagame.


I'm always open for discussion, but the provided banlist (post 1) is balanced and tested a lot. The decks we play here, are so much more fun then the old banlist could provide.

For example:
Last friday (Yesterday) we had 19 people showing at the tournament. I've seen 6 new decks. At every tournament we see aprox between 4 and 8 new decks.
Only 4 people played the exact same deck (So 2 decks got played by 2 people both),
And from that, 2 people developed a deck together and both played it for the first time. So it was a new deck (Counted as 1)

When Tendrills and Affinity were not banned, 40% played affinity, 40% tendrills and other 20%... something else. And yes, I was also a tendrills player... And I disliked it, that Tendrills got banned. But since then, the meta just became a lot more fun.

Grtz,
Magno-
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Ownj00



Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the normal banned list for peasant is the one listed on this site. just because the last time a card had to get banned was a while ago doesnt mean the list is out of date or that no one is actively watching for cards that may need banning.

and 2 leagues agreeing on a different banned list is no argument for it being correct, when in comparison the vast majority of pauper players use the main list.
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Magno-
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The normal banned list for peasant is the one listed on this site. just because the last time a card had to get banned was a while ago doesnt mean the list is out of date or that no one is actively watching for cards that may need banning.

The list used on this site, is the one from [urlhttp://www.geocities.com/peasantmagic/rules.htm[/url]. That had a 'Peasant Council' which changed the banned list every 4 months. The last time that this was done, was in August 2004.

The Yahoo Group (The place where the changes were made and discussed) is gone since beginning of 2005. So since then, they didn't actually update the list and neither did Magic-League!

The last similar tournaments here were the Extended Pauper (Few weeks ago) and T2 Peasant (2007). And I say similar? But this is Vintage Peasant, so a lot more cards are able to be used.

I wonder who checks the Peasant Meta and actually actively watching possible banned cards?

If you use the old Banned List and make a tourney, everybody would play Affinity or Tendrills. You would get something similar to the Pauper Master, where you could almost guess the outcome before the tournament even begun.


Quote:
and 2 leagues agreeing on a different banned list is no argument for it being correct, when in comparison the vast majority of pauper players use the main list.
Pauper isn't Peasant. Pauper is only commons, this is with the including of uncommons. Which makes some cards better.

Pauper for example doesn't have Tendrils of Agony, Shrapnel Blast or Sol Ring. So the format isn't the same and it's totally not comparable to peasant.

And I only know these 2 leagues who have regular Peasant tournaments and both have identical banlist (excluding the 3 uncommons/common cards I mentioned earlier). I guess that states a lot more then a banned list from 2004?
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you change the list on the site then it would work fine, otherwise its a bad idea to use a different ban list from whats on the site.
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Magno-
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asamodious wrote:
If you change the list on the site then it would work fine, otherwise its a bad idea to use a different ban list from whats on the site.

I've spoken somebody about it (after your post) and it will probably be changed Smile
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NahHolmes



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason peasant is fun is because cards like skull clamp and frantic search are legal. Every deck has an answer and bad matchups just like every other format, ElfClamp scoops to MBC with Pestilence, High Tide combo scoops hard to Black Aggro with discard and LD, Affinity has sb hate from every deck and is very 2nd tier, Tendrils scoops to Mono Black Aggro. Actually I think the best deck overall is MonoBlackControl so it's kind of ironic the garbage banned list that your buddies and some french guys made up nerfs every other deck. Sol Ring is a waste of a precious uncommon slot and doesn't need to be banned.
I hope noone listens to you and your attempts to ruin the fun of peasant magic. If you don't like Combo play Black Aggro don't ban Tendrils. Rolling Eyes For the record I play lots of peasant magic.
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coolcreep



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 588

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, the solution is simple. Don't join any of Magno's t1 peasant tournaments. If he can get 7 other people willing to play knowing full-well that he has his own special banlist, then more power to him.
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NahHolmes



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not really the point. I kind of agree with you but it he's going to call it peasant he should be following peasant league rules to prevent confusion. I mean what if someone started making pauper ext minis with blink banned, then someone could make MYOS tournies with Dredge cards banned, next thing you know it's chaos. What he's trying to do is change the league banned list, which is the right way to go about it I just don't think it's doing peasant any favors since by trying to ban the decks he thinks are overpowered he's just making new decks overpowered in their place and really the decks he thinks are overpowered fit into the rock/paper/scissors meta that is pauper magic in reality and all of those decks have counter picks and nuances that make them not as bad as he perceives them to be. I mean if MBA and MBC didn't exist there would need to be bannings, but those 2 decks answer all combo decks and clamp decks with a seriousness. It's all about judging the meta and picking the best deck for it then tweaking that deck for problem matchups you expect to face. In a nutshell it's just like any other format but the top decks are well established and haven't changed much in 5 years except for Tendrils, but the answer remains the same to that as the day it premiered, Duress, Sinkhole, Hymn, Specter, Dark Rit. So the meta gets overrun by combo play black, if black gets common play White Weenie, if that gets common play ElfClamp, if that gets to common play MBC, if that gets common play WW, Burn, Sligh, and Affinity fit in the middle, none especially overpowered but all good in an unknown meta. Then there's always the random decks some good some bad but banning all the cards that make the format worth playing seems like the wrong answer to me. Affinity can win turn 3 sure but that's with a perfect draw, so good luck with that, and every peasant deck worth it's basic land is going to run sb hate for it or expect to combo out before it. I mean for example I'm playing Red I'm gonna have 4 Artifact hate min in SB and Mogg Fanatic, Burn, so I waste the Disciples and Shatter a plating or burn the attached creature every turn, I mean you get the point, these decks are held in a fragile balance that I don't think needs to be messed up.
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NahHolmes



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also one more point, if he's calling it vintage peasant wouldn't that mean the vintage b/r list with peasant restrictions on top? That's what I always thought when I joined tournies called vintage peasant. So wouldn't Frantic Search and Sol Ring for examples be restricted to one a piece anyways if it's vintage peasant as opposed to regular peasant?
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