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"US used napalm-like gas in Fallujah on civilians"


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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are no longer living in the dark ages. There is this thing called compassion for other human beings. These people that were killed, are as innocent as thoose people killed in the twin towers. You should value there life as such.

Can you place yourself living under a fascist dictatorship of which you have no choice? Then you see your family burned to death, in attacks that were aimed to cripple this dictatorship. There is no difference between this and the twin towers except in intent and severity. THe innocent paying the price for there leaders quarrels. It is a sad fact of war BUT we civilised countries try to do all we can to avoid such things because we are civilised and intellegent, caring peoples. In such matters, may we remain vigilant. Less we find ourselves looking and acting like terroists.
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theTJtrooper



Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
@TJtrooper

The reason why, I did not belive I would have to explain this but it seems I once again I must. I will state the obvious.

If you Ignore any such allegations made against you and they are NOT taken seriously, what happens when something really does happen. Nothing because the claim will be ignored, hence all claims of this nature MUST be taken seriously. (once evidence is provided)

Your example was flawed, if you accused me of stacking my deck, I would only be banned once the allegation was proven, not prior. And what would be the point of making a complaint at all, if it was just going to be dismissed, as untrue. On what is fundementaily a racial basis, if they have solid evidence then any claim of this nature should be taken seriously and looked into further.


The first thing you said was pretty snobish. I can act holier-than-thou on the internet too, its not that hard when you aren't afraid of someone punching you in the face.

You need to understand this and be reasonable...If one person mentions 50 things illegally done by the military, its pretty ridiculous to investigate those claims. Its a waste of time and money, period. The only way a claim can be legit is if a much larger group of people make the claim. What you are suggesting is extremism...there is aboslutely no need to follow up on every single allegation, especially when it comes from a part of the world that is known for anti-U.S. feelings.

What the heck are you talking about my example is flawed? I made up the example to give you a different perspective. My example had nothing to do with the rules and regulations of this site...it was all hypothetical, but apparently you took it literally.

"And what would be the point of making a complaint at all, if it was just going to be dismissed, as untrue."

That an absolutely wonderful quote! I'm now going to answer this question: I hypothetically don't like you, just like European countries don't like the U.S. That is the reason I made the claim...because I want to ruin your image. People will see my post claiming that you cheated, but the might never see the post that states that you are innocent, or they might not even care enough to look after seeing the initial post. In the example, your credibility is shot because I lied. That is the message I hope you understand.


I just read your latest post...that is absolute bullcrap. You dare compare the WTC to U.S. soldiers in the Middle East. Let me tell you something: UNITED STATES SOLDIERS DO NOT KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE. Our military is the best in the world, no one is better trained. People spend their lives serving our country, and yet they are degraded as family killers by those who have no morals, such as yourself. I like debating war and politics on forums, but I can't stand to see people lie like that about our military. Its disgusting.
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Trizzy60



Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goes to show americans are idiots
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Counterlife



Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trizzy60 wrote:
Goes to show americans are idiots

INsert republicans where americans stands. Remember, not everyone in U.S.A(if you call us americans, you prove yourself to be ignorant cause there is a north america and south america, which goes to show how people overseas generalize as much as we do) wanted the war. Hell, drop our prez in Iraq and give hilary clinton a call for all i care.
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Big



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm assuming this applies to the operation designed to root out the terrorists from Fallujah. Civilians where warned to leave leave the City serveral days in advance. It was also know the everyone left in the city was assumed to be a terrorists until proven otherwise(was stated in advance when people were warned to leave). Under those circumstances anyone left in the city is assumed to be the enemy by the troops. If someone is attacking you from a building you blow it up, it's just that simple. People had time to get out either a) They didn't want to leave, knowingly putting there own lives at risk, b) they were being used as humans shields and if I'm a soldier I'm not gonna hesitate when it comes to my own life,c) they were terrorists themselves. Civilians die in War, it's called collateral Damage. No one wants to kill them but I have to get my Squad out of a crossfire. I'd use the napalm, if you don't well somebody has to die.
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Koen



Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theTJtrooper wrote:
I just read your latest post...that is absolute bullcrap. You dare compare the WTC to U.S. soldiers in the Middle East. Let me tell you something: UNITED STATES SOLDIERS DO NOT KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE. Our military is the best in the world, no one is better trained. People spend their lives serving our country, and yet they are degraded as family killers by those who have no morals, such as yourself. I like debating war and politics on forums, but I can't stand to see people lie like that about our military. Its disgusting.


You should really look more into the worldwide news of the past 50 years about the US Military.

Quote:
Not a single major voice has been raised in the American media against the ongoing destruction of Fallujah. While much of the world recognizes something horrifying has occurred, the US press does not bat an eye over the systematic leveling of a city of 300,000 people.
...
The chief United Nations human rights official, Louise Arbour, has called for an investigation of abuses, including the disproportionate use of force and the targeting of civilians. Arbour claimed that all violations of international humanitarian and human rights laws should be investigated, including “the deliberate targeting of civilians, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks, the killing of injured persons and the use of human shields.” The American media either ignores or brushes this aside.
...
As Marjorie Cohn, professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, executive vice president of the National Lawyers Guild and the US representative to the executive committee of the American Association of Jurists, has noted, the attack began with an act contravening international law: “They [US forces] stormed and occupied the Fallujah General Hospital, and have not agreed to allow doctors and ambulances to go inside the main part of the city to help the wounded, in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions.”
...
Cohn continues: “Torture, inhuman treatment, and willful killing are grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, treaties ratified by the United States. Grave breaches of Geneva are considered war crimes under our federal War Crimes Act of 1996.
...
There has been nothing like the attack on Fallujah since the Nazi invasion and occupation of much of the European continent—the shelling and bombing of Warsaw in September 1939, the terror bombing of Rotterdam in May 1940. All the talk about precision bombing in Iraq is dust thrown in the public’s eyes.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/nov2004/fall-n17.shtml

Quote:
there is little doubt that Fallujah had to be retaken. The city is the headquarters for Iraq’s Sunni Muslim minority, and without Sunni participation January’s elections could be considered illegitimate.
- St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Right, these people need to participate in the elctions. Let's bomb them. Good reasoning.
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Big



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually the logic behind is that if someone is holding a gun to there head they can't vote. Also what was the reason provised for not letting the Doctors in, was the fightning to intense to sucessfully get the Doctors, was the hospital taken over as base of operations(All of these are common sense reasons that would make not violating the Geneva Convention a very Dumb move). Also I wouldn't trust the UN voice on any issue on Iraq as they were against the US going and were making Money off of oil for food(I would like to note American Companies were doing this as well mainly Daimler-Chrysler). Also most of the City was evacuated and Blowing up buildings is part of Urban warfare plain and simple, moreover after Fallujah the US poored millions into Iraq specfically to rebuild the city. As for targeting Civilians on purpose and for torture it's all theory and here say until you have a) pictures or Footage like Abu-grab(that may be spelled wrong), where i would like to note that all know offenders were Court-martialed B) Multiple independent sources, not some mother crying b/c her bathist son got blown up. As for the Storming of the hospital it is logical move as A) it makes a good command center B) How do you stop people from become hostages... Surround them with guns C) Also not allowing Civilian Doctors in does not mean they didn't Use Military Doctors, Every Suicide Bomber that has Survived was because of a US Military Doctor. Insurgents in Iraq Don't fight in uniform meaning they techically are not an organzied army and do not have the benifit of Geneva Conventions Protection . In short go US and if they don't fight by the rules, why would you.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We will always have the right too question, thats part of democracy, free speech allowing us to question and challenge whatever we see fit.

America must answer these sort of claims, they can not be dismissed for reasons I have already explained. Or shall we all go around shooting people and then saying when asked why we did it, that we dont have to tell you are biased and too unimportant for us. They have evidence it needs to proved or disproved simple. There also could have been unmitigating circumstances, that made these actions necessary. Its not compunding the US to guilt as all the us replies have acted in response. It is asking for there side of the events.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not belive you are qualified in the slightest to decide whether evidence is weak or strong. Should we all just let things like this slip, so we can allow another hitler.
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SL|RedDemon



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
="theTJtrooperI just read your latest post...that is absolute bullcrap. You dare compare the WTC to U.S. soldiers in the Middle East. Let me tell you something: UNITED STATES SOLDIERS DO NOT KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE. Our military is the best in the world, no one is better trained. People spend their lives serving our country, and yet they are degraded as family killers by those who have no morals, such as yourself. I like debating war and politics on forums, but I can't stand to see people lie like that about our military. Its disgusting.


LOL

americas history of killing innocent people in wars is almost unparalleled by others.

in what kind of fucked up dream world do you live?
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