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Anti-plainswalker tech


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nonroker



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:32 am    Post subject: Anti-plainswalker tech Reply with quote

Decks packing multiple plainswalkers cause serious problems for certain kinds of decks. So I would like to brainstorm some anti-plainswalker tech.

Obviously the most efficient way of handling a plainswalker-packed deck is playing a strong aggro deck. But I'm a control-player at heart, so that's something to keep in mind, but not something I want to resort to.

Burn is another option, obviously. Rekindled flame is probably the best one that I can think of now, since it can potentially return to kill a plainswalker. If pulse of the forge was legal in Standard - that would be awesome, but alas.

Runded Halo provides some protection against certain plainswalkers, notably Ajani Vengeant's ultimate and Chandra. But it provides no protection against Garruk and Sarkhan vol. So probably not good.

Cards that can remove permanents is a good solution. The best amongs these being Oblivion ring, being cheap and easy to splash. Rootgrapple is instant, and can net you a card if you're playing Doran, but five mana is a little steep, considdering that all current plainswalkers cost either 5 mana or less. So there's no real tempo advantage and in all likelihood the plainswalker you just killed is just going to be resumoned from his hand. Woodfall Primus can potentially kill two plainswalkers, but it takes the expensed to the roof and only a dedicated mana-ramp type deck can even think of playing him. Reprint Vindicate please! Hell reprint Faith's Fetters.

Counter spells are good, probably the best way to keep plainswalkers down. But they can do nothing to plainswalker already in play. Guttural response, and cloudthresher provide ways for the Plainswalker-swinging player to get his plainswalker in play. And after that bouncing with Cryptic Command is the only solution.

Bounce is probably worth looking into, now that I mention it. Boomerang, Resounding Wave, etc. They're not permanent solutions, but they can give some tempo advantage, as well as provide an opening to counter the plainswalker. If you have the mana, or a way to reanimate him, Kederekt Leviathan can act as a sweeper for all plainswalker and their token minions.

Now I left this one for last, because I think this is the tech that will turn out to turn 5c control's matchup against Plainswalker.dec around. Scourglass. It kills the 'Walkers. It kills their minions. It even kills people who just happened to watching the game.


Now any other ideas for anti-plainswalker tech that I missed?
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mTk-Away
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything that evades would be fine... Vendilion Clique comes to mind first, as it has rather high power and it flashes.

Another good option would be good old Pithing Needle.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flash, haste and evasion are all good ways of dealing with planeswalkers. You don't have to have many creatures.

So all you need is flying, fear, haste or protection on your win conditions, as well as Oblivion Ring and/or Cryptic Command and you will be fine.
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nonroker



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vedrfolner wrote:
Flash, haste and evasion are all good ways of dealing with planeswalkers. You don't have to have many creatures.

So all you need is flying, fear, haste or protection on your win conditions, as well as Oblivion Ring and/or Cryptic Command and you will be fine.


My gut-feeling is to agree with you fully. But why does 5c control decks have suck a hard time against Plainswalker.dec? 5c control decks has all of the elements you just mentioned in their deck, and even a single resolved plainswalker, let alone two gives them fits.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

5c control decks are usually very slow, so unless they have said win conditions on the table when a planeswalker arrives, it can do a lot of damage before it is dealt with.

My version (which is 4c, actually) plays Bitterblossom and Grixis Charm as well as Cryptic Command and Primal Command so I have never experienced a particular problem with planeswalkers. I haven't played against a "planeswalker.dec" though.
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getmatt201



Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pithing needle
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Bballhopstar



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok so the best answer is negate becuase when they play garruk on your turn 2 that will be the olny answer that you have unless you want to play pithing needle
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also love the needle back when i use to play constrcuted they always worked my way into my deck. Activated abilities tend to do broken things needle stops all of them.
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Comodope



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best Anti-Plainswalker-Tech is playing no Plains. Wink
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Holzi



Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, i agree with comodo, not playing plains is a good tech against planeswalkers
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Ehri



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/ignore Comodo , Holzi ._.
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mandanglelow



Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Needle FTW
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

play faeries you just wont lose in geenral.
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legion28



Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gaddock Teeg Very Happy
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