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Cruel Intentions - 5c control


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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevinconvery wrote:


You're. As in "You are", but with an apostrophe. Your is the possessive form, as in, "Your argument makes no sense." or "Your family tree looks like a wreath."

26-27 land in any deck besides Buehler Blue and MBC is dumb. And even then on the MBC, it's still overkill. 25 lands will work and give you the extra two slots to do something, else you're overflowing yourself with lands in the late game. Retrace, like varno345 suggested, might be pretty good instead of the two extra lands.

And how would you know how much of any given deck I've played? Clearly you've been cooking some meth in the shed or something, it's affected the decay of your own brain cells.


You don't get mana flooded with 5c control. You drop a land each turn and then you win. Not only are around 10 of the lands in the deck cip, there are also five colours to fix and the more land you got in the deck, the higher the chance is that you get the colours you need.

Aggro decks play 23-24 lands. A deck with the curve ending at 8, and with the majority of cards around 3-6 cc in all colours need only 25? If you play 7-8 draw spells in there that may work, but I would rather have a land to play each turn than having to spend resources in order to get them.

So far in testing I have found that I would certainly not want less than 26 land in my build, and I have tweaked it to be mainly UB and with a quite unambitious curve...
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varno345



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol in the control mirror u win once u cast cruel ultimatum so 25 is sufficient to get u there with all the card draw the deck provides, also 4 ultimatum is too much -2 ultimatum +2 good stuff.
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Cosmo



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
your an idiot and have obviously never played 5c control
^^^^
enough to talk about it. what does brokeland even mean? trotsky yes it is slow because everyone is playing these 5c control decks.


You're. As in "You are", but with an apostrophe. Your is the possessive form, as in, "Your argument makes no sense." or "Your family tree looks like a wreath."

26-27 land in any deck besides Buehler Blue and MBC is dumb. And even then on the MBC, it's still overkill. 25 lands will work and give you the extra two slots to do something, else you're overflowing yourself with lands in the late game. Retrace, like varno345 suggested, might be pretty good instead of the two extra lands.

And how would you know how much of any given deck I've played? Clearly you've been cooking some meth in the shed or something, it's affected the decay of your own brain cells.



i dont agree with you. a lot of decks run more than 26 lands. if you want to use cruel ultimatum as a win condition, you need to drop a land each turn. if you dont play an answer to fulminator mage like broken ambitions or remove soul, the mirror match will be though.
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FallenAngel1



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChiDoRiE wrote:
Next Level 5-color

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [LRW] Secluded Glen
4 [MOR] Mutavault
4 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
1 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
2 [10E] Faerie Conclave
5 [ALA] Island (1)
5 [ALA] Swamp (4)

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
4 [LRW] Scion of Oona
4 [LRW] Mistbind Clique
3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
3 [LRW] Peppersmoke

// Spells
4 [MOR] Bitterblossom
4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [LRW] Broken Ambitions
2 [10E] Terror
2 [ALA] Agony Warp

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 3 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 2 [EVE] Stillmoon Cavalier
SB: 2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
SB: 3 [10E] Bottle Gnomes
SB: 3 [MOR] Mind Shatter

If you actually want to not play the best deck in the format, you should play less one-ofs and more lands. Fog is bad in this format because the decks it's good against are byes for you anyway.


Reading = TECH! Cause when i read, i know not to post my U/b Faeries List as 5cc Control
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Aether-



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

27 land lol; also the Faeries deck wrong post bud.
I think ive found the best 23 land setup possible, jund charm for another wipe effect(@ instant speed, also great for the tormods crypt effect or sucking an extra 2 life out of finks,pumping a drifter for some swings) Heres the list as of 930pm.

// Lands
2 [EVE] Cascade Bluffs
4 [LRW] Vivid Creek
2 [LRW] Vivid Meadow
2 [LRW] Vivid Grove
4 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
2 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
2 [SHM] Mystic Gate
2 [EVE] Flooded Grove
3 [10E] Island



1 [EVE] Nucklavee
2 [LRW] Shriekmaw
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [SHM] Oona, Queen of MTG
2 [LRW] Cloudthresher

2 [LRW] Makeshift Mannequin
1 [SOA] Cruel Ultimatum
3 [SHM] Firespout
4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
3 [SOA] Bant Charm
2 [10E] Wrath of God
1 [MOR] Mind Shatter <- might get cut
1 [LRW] Primal Command
2 [SOA] Jund Charm
3 [MOR] Negate
2 [10E] Remove Soul

Took out 4 cancels for negates/remove souls and cut angelsong for jund charm, been working great. Also, primal command wins.
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varno345



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why does everyone like broken ambitions so much it's a bad counterspell compared to the other options in the format.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how is it bad, remove soul doesnt counter blossom and negate doesnt counter creatures, it does both, negate/remove soul are good at doing what theyre supposed to but broken ambitions is good at doing both things. sometimes broken is bad but its better all around.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mark of a noob is not understanding the maths behind mana curves.
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warwizard87



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay just to clarify the argument on land count lets look at proven lists, ie decks that did quite well

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=std&start_date=2008-10-12&end_date=2008-10-12&city=Roanoke

starcitygames cruse qualifier top 16 decks, within those 16 decks was 4 cruel controls, all ran 26 lands, the deck placed 2nd 3rd 9th and 15th. This all but solidifies the land base at 26. 24-25 is to few 27 MAY be to many 26 seems to be mathematically correct.

as to the number of ultimatums, the consensus of these proven successful decks is 2. Why is this, this is not a conclusive reason of course but it is the upper end of your curve, you do not want to see it in open hands, but you do want to see it around turn 4-5. With mulldrifter,espercharm and cryptic command you will get there by the time you want to see it. with 4 you run to much of a risk of having dead cards early on when you really wanted a negate, fire spout or something similar.

and no you don't win just by casting it, often this is the case, but then you obviously have not been looking at a table with 4 spirit tokens and glorious anthem and a forgeteneder and just praying that you draw wog heh.
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