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BG with land destruction? maybe?



 
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HSpecial



Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:19 am    Post subject: BG with land destruction? maybe? Reply with quote

OK I am working off the 2nd place deck from the master. Here's the list for reference.

// Lands
3 [EVE] Twilight Mire
5 [P3] Swamp (3)
2 [MOR] Mutavault
4 [LRW] Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 [10E] Treetop Village
3 [10E] Llanowar Wastes
3 [OV] Forest

// Creatures
1 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
3 [EVE] Stillmoon Cavalier
4 [MOR] Chameleon Colossus
4 [LRW] Wren's Run Vanquisher
3 [RAV] Civic Wayfinder

// Spells
4 [LRW] Profane Command
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [LRW] Nameless Inversion
2 [LRW] Eyeblight's Ending
3 [MOR] Bitterblossom

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
SB: 3 [MOR] Mind Shatter
SB: 2 [LRW] Primal Command
SB: 4 [LRW] Cloudthresher
SB: 3 [ALA] Infest
SB: 2 [EVE] Wickerbough Elder




I've been seeing a lot of Fertile Grounds and recently I tried to push red Ponza thru extended... No luck there obv. Format is too fast. But with the metagame shaping up around here, I think a little LD will be great tech vs. control. Here's my update on the deck for after the master since I expect a HUGE increase in the QnT and control archetypes.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [EVE] Twilight Mire
5 [P3] Swamp (3)
2 [MOR] Mutavault
4 [LRW] Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 [10E] Treetop Village
3 [10E] Llanowar Wastes
3 [OV] Forest

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
3 [EVE] Stillmoon Cavalier
3 [MOR] Chameleon Colossus
4 [LRW] Wren's Run Vanquisher
2 [RAV] Civic Wayfinder
4 [SHM] Fulminator Mage
4 [4E] Birds of Paradise

// Spells
3 [LRW] Profane Command
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [LRW] Nameless Inversion
2 [LRW] Eyeblight's Ending

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
SB: 2 [MOR] Mind Shatter
SB: 4 [LRW] Cloudthresher
SB: 3 [ALA] Infest
SB: 1 [EVE] Wickerbough Elder
SB: 4 [10E] Rain of Tears



So far, so good. Rain of Tears comes in vs. control for either cavaliers (if they dont have much black removal) or inversions. I dont think more land destruction than this is needed, the deck is rather solid. BOP really helps too im finding, in case you get stuck on one black source or something.

Begin flaming.
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Omnomcake



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think Drain the Well would be better than rain of tears here. it costs one more, but its BG hybrid making it easier to cast consistently and it has the added benefit of gaining you life. Just a though
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deck 2: Considering you have only 4 2-drops, I would have considered going up to 6 1-mana accelerators by removing the 2 Wayfinders for 2 Llanowar Elves. Then I would have removed the 2 Mutavaults for 2 Forests in order to increase the amount of green mana available turn 1, but only if by testing you have found 10 inadequate.

I actually think land destruction is worth trying against 5c control/QnT, but never forget that all it does is slow them down, never aim to create a sort of lock with land destruction.

I think that you should aim to be able to replace the Fulminator Mages against red aggro. So -1 Garruk, -1 Elder, -2 Cloudthresher, +2 Primal Command, +2 Eyeblight's Ending for instance.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

angelord3549 wrote:
I would think Drain the Well would be better than rain of tears here. it costs one more, but its BG hybrid making it easier to cast consistently and it has the added benefit of gaining you life. Just a though


Why would he want life vs control?
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PonzaFreak



Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems foolish to make your LD strategy consist of just 4 Fulminator mages. The card is good but I don't think it warrants a LD stance. If you want to play LD you need to play a lot, and you need to be able to drop it as soon as turn 2. So you've got the right idea but it's one or the other, you either want to destroy their lands or you want to drop phat dudes. Mage seems like it belongs SB in place of rain of tears and you should change your MD back or something.
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PonzaFreak



Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A RW card hardly is easily splashable in a solely GB deck... then again this formats pretty generous with the lands, I suppose it's doable. Sounds bad though.
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HSpecial



Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Drain the Well: It costs 4. This is a big problem in this format. You cannot get that nut draw involving turn 1 bop turn 2 LD on the play. Import the deck and look at the curve also.

On Llanowar Elves: you are probably right. good call.

On more LD: You are gonna have to do a better job of convincing me what cards I could take out and still beat anything other than control. Turns 2 3 and 4 land destruction against Kithkin is suicide.

I'm still tweaking a lot here. The fulminator mage is maindeck because its also a creature and not a completely useless draw if there are no nonbasic lands. Also, last time I checked I think every deck in the format has some nonbasic land.

The reason for only 8 LD spells is clearly that I am not basing the deck around land destruction.... it is just a little tech against control, I see many people not knowing what to do with a bunch of Wren's Run Vanquishers beating down by turn 5 when they are down a few lands.

BTW, always take out white if you have the choice. WOG sucks. The only reason this deck works with LD in it is cause of the T8 decklists from the master... This makes pretty much everyone in the league pick up a deck that is vulnerable to early land destruction and fatties. The best era for ponza IMO was when affinity came out for standard.... It was GW slide and UW slide, then affinity and ponza. Everyone and their mom was playing UW control and I had no trouble at all playing mono red ponza for like 500 rating points a day. I can see something similar going down with this list. It definitely needs tweaking though.
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HSpecial



Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [EVE] Twilight Mire
4 [LRW] Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 [OV] Forest
3 [10E] Llanowar Wastes
4 [10E] Treetop Village
5 [P3] Swamp (3)
1 [MOR] Mutavault

// Creatures
3 [LRW] Wren's Run Vanquisher
2 [10E] Llanowar Elves
4 [4E] Birds of Paradise
4 [MOR] Chameleon Colossus
4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
3 [SHM] Fulminator Mage
2 [10E] Graveborn Muse

// Spells
2 [LRW] Eyeblight's Ending
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
2 [10E] Terror
2 [LRW] Profane Command
4 [LRW] Nameless Inversion
2 [LRW] Primal Command

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [10E] Graveborn Muse
SB: 2 [MOR] Mind Shatter
SB: 2 [LRW] Cloudthresher
SB: 3 [EVE] Stillmoon Cavalier
SB: 3 [ALA] Infest
SB: 4 [10E] Rain of Tears


This one is testing OK. Graveborn Muse is bomb vs. control, and I think maindeck primal command is key.
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