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4-3-2-2 SSE draft no8



 
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:01 pm    Post subject: 4-3-2-2 SSE draft no8 Reply with quote

Another 4-3-2-2 back to winning.

Event #: 67185
Time: 9/3/2008 12:13:16 AM
Players:
Demonic
Sir Loin
conform
gmamunes
--> ElementalMox
Muuula
muzmeister
A_Reya

------ SHM ------

Pack 1 pick 1:
Kinscaer Harpoonist
Cinderhaze Wretch
--> Burn Trail
Farhaven Elf
Mine Excavation (FOIL)
Old Ghastbark
Smolder Initiate
Scrapbasket
Strip Bare
Drowner Initiate
Scarscale Ritual
Wasp Lancer
Flourishing Defenses
Slinking Giant
Knollspine Invocation

Yes i took burntrail over knollspine invocation i really do not find the card that good, the ability to turn all your spells into X burn spells does not seem that good, you have to have enough land for the big ones and most the time the cards you are discarding you want to play to win, Im sure everyone diagrees with me but I really do not like the card no where near as good as storm bind, so that leaves the burn trail and the wasp lancer, i think burn trail has got alot better with this format so thats the card i took.

Pack 1 pick 2:
Merrow Wavebreakers
Scar
Mudbrawler Cohort
Raven's Run Dragoon
Chainbreaker
Silkbind Faerie
Sinking Feeling
Inquisitor's Snare
Gloomwidow's Feast
Manaforge Cinder
River's Grasp
Wicker Warcrawler
Crowd of Cinders
--> Wort, the Raidmother

It was a tough choice between silkbind faerie and wort the raider mother but after first picking the burn trail, I decided to go with the potential awsomeness of wort.

Pack 1 pick 3:
Consign to Dream
Oona's Gatewarden
Runes of the Deus
Safehold Duo
Medicine Runner
Scuzzback Scrapper
Elvish Hexhunter
Goldenglow Moth
Zealous Guardian
Loch Korrigan
Repel Intruders
--> Tattermunge Witch
Advice from the Fae

If i had picked the silkbind faerie i could see taking the consign here but the witch is fine

Pack 1 pick 4:
Ghastly Discovery
--> Wildslayer Elves
Blazethorn Scarecrow (FOIL)
Morselhoarder
Chainbreaker
Ember Gale
Niveous Wisps
Loamdragger Giant
Drowner Initiate
Inkfathom Infiltrator
Gnarled Effigy
Hollowsage

Thats a late inkfathom infiltrators but the elves is the best card for me

Pack 1 pick 5:
Last Breath
Briarberry Cohort
Sootwalkers
Blistering Dieflyn
Presence of Gond
Bloodshed Fever
Manamorphose
Plains (FOIL)
Scarscale Ritual
--> Elsewhere Flask
Pyre Charger

Hmm im not sure just how poen red is so i went with the flask as opposed to the walkers

Pack 1 pick 6:
Last Breath
Wanderbrine Rootcutters
--> Sootwalkers
Ember Gale
Smolder Initiate
Gloomwidow's Feast
Sinking Feeling
Goldenglow Moth
Illuminated Folio
Umbral Mantle

This time the walkers is my only real option

Pack 1 pick 7:
Safehold Sentry
Wingrattle Scarecrow
Ghastly Discovery
Smash to Smithereens
Hungry Spriggan
Loch Korrigan
Scrapbasket
Scuzzback Scrapper
--> Howl of the Night Pack

I took an age to make this decision but i love howl most the time you play it you win the game, the clincher over the spriggin being 6th turn wort, 7th turn howl with elsewhere flask out it was too good to resist 14 2/2 attackers thats 28 damage on its own awsome.

Pack 1 pick 8:
Merrow Wavebreakers
Boggart Arsonists
--> Runes of the Deus
Loamdragger Giant
Put Away
Smash to Smithereens
Torrent of Souls
Tattermunge Maniac

Another tough pick between deus and the maniac, I already have a few good targets for the deus so i take that in the end.

Pack 1 pick 9:
Cinderhaze Wretch
--> Farhaven Elf
Smolder Initiate
Strip Bare
Drowner Initiate
Scarscale Ritual
Slinking Giant

I really do need 3 drops

Pack 1 pick 10:
Merrow Wavebreakers
Scar
--> Mudbrawler Cohort
Chainbreaker
Sinking Feeling
Manaforge Cinder

Perhasp red is open after all, i like the cohort more than the scar

Pack 1 pick 11:
Scuzzback Scrapper
Goldenglow Moth
Zealous Guardian
Loch Korrigan
--> Advice from the Fae

Pack 1 pick 12:
Ghastly Discovery
Blazethorn Scarecrow (FOIL)
--> Niveous Wisps
Drowner Initiate

Pack 1 pick 13:
Bloodshed Fever
Plains (FOIL)
--> Pyre Charger

Pack 1 pick 14:
--> Smolder Initiate
Sinking Feeling

Pack 1 pick 15:
--> Ghastly Discovery

------ SHM ------

Pack 2 pick 1:
Barkshell Blessing
Mudbrawler Raiders
Sickle Ripper
Parapet Watchers
Blight Sickle
Ballynock Cohort
Spell Syphon
Rustrazor Butcher
Aphotic Wisps
Kithkin Shielddare
Fate Transfer
Dream Salvage
Raking Canopy
--> Murderous Redcap
Vexing Shusher

Easy pick.

Pack 2 pick 2:
Devoted Druid
Tattermunge Duo
Disturbing Plot
--> Ashenmoor Gouger (FOIL)
Æthertow
Safehold Elite
Crimson Wisps
Viridescent Wisps
Cinderbones
Mine Excavation
Blazethorn Scarecrow
Lockjaw Snapper
Kithkin Rabble
Polluted Bonds

Easy pick.

Pack 2 pick 3:
Thistledown Duo
Fists of the Demigod
Helm of the Ghastlord
Aphotic Wisps (FOIL)
Rune-Cervin Rider
--> Scuzzback Marauders
Cinderbones
Apothecary Initiate
Crimson Wisps
Toil to Renown
Moonring Island
Dawnglow Infusion
Fulminator Mage

Another easy pick.

Pack 2 pick 4:
Faerie Macabre
Traitor's Roar
Somnomancer
--> Devoted Druid
Barrenton Medic
Memory Sluice
Poison the Well
Foxfire Oak
Pili-Pala
Spiteflame Witch
Thoughtweft Gambit
Dramatic Entrance

I have some good cards to power out.

Pack 2 pick 5:
Mudbrawler Raiders
Torture
Torpor Dust
Kithkin Shielddare
Prismwake Merrow
Inescapable Brute
Safewright Quest
Splitting Headache
Madblind Mountain
--> Ashenmoor Gouger
Wound Reflection

Easy pick starting to look like i will be mono red.

Pack 2 pick 6:
Æthertow
Gravelgill Axeshark
--> Sootstoke Kindler
Spell Syphon (FOIL)
Memory Sluice
Blazethorn Scarecrow
Emberstrike Duo
Mistmeadow Skulk
Cursecatcher
Wheel of Sun and Moon

Seems good with double gouger

Pack 2 pick 7:
--> Sickle Ripper
Torpor Dust
Blight Sickle
Toil to Renown
Thornwatch Scarecrow
Safewright Quest
Aphotic Wisps
Leechridden Swamp
Guttural Response

Pack 2 pick 8:
--> Traitor's Roar
Torture
Isleback Spawn (FOIL)
Poison the Well
Gleeful Sabotage
Ashenmoor Cohort
Apothecary Initiate
Whimwader

Pack 2 pick 9:
--> Mudbrawler Raiders
Parapet Watchers
Blight Sickle
Spell Syphon
Rustrazor Butcher
Aphotic Wisps
Dream Salvage

Pack 2 pick 10:
Disturbing Plot
--> Crimson Wisps
Viridescent Wisps
Cinderbones
Mine Excavation
Polluted Bonds

Pack 2 pick 11:
--> Fists of the Demigod
Cinderbones
Apothecary Initiate
Moonring Island
Dawnglow Infusion

Pack 2 pick 12:
Traitor's Roar
Memory Sluice
Poison the Well
--> Foxfire Oak

Pack 2 pick 13:
--> Prismwake Merrow
Splitting Headache
Madblind Mountain

Pack 2 pick 14:
Memory Sluice
--> Emberstrike Duo

Pack 2 pick 15:
--> Leechridden Swamp

------ EVE ------

Pack 3 pick 1:
Monstrify
Kithkin Zealot
Woodlurker Mimic
Unmake
Flame Jab
Merrow Bonegnawer
Syphon Life
Banishing Knack
Hoof Skulkin
--> Snakeform
Battlegate Mimic
Glamerdye
Heartlash Cinder
Sturdy Hatchling
Restless Apparition

Really good more potential sickness with wort

Pack 3 pick 2:
Favor of the Overbeing
--> Puncture Blast
Riverfall Mimic
Tilling Treefolk
Unnerving Assault
Jawbone Skulkin
Crackleburr
Desecrator Hag
Wickerbough Elder
Nip Gwyllion
Trapjaw Kelpie
Talonrend
Noxious Hatchling
Raven's Crime

Yet more!

Pack 3 pick 3:
Noggle Bridgebreaker
Monstrify
Merrow Levitator
Gift of the Deity
Rendclaw Trow
Beckon Apparition
Indigo Faerie
Inside Out
--> Cinder Pyromancer
Merrow Bonegnawer
Edge of the Divinity
Fang Skulkin
Altar Golem

I very much need a three drop and he was very good

Pack 3 pick 4:
Duergar Assailant
Kithkin Spellduster
Double Cleave
Canker Abomination
Nucklavee
--> Puncture Blast
Harvest Gwyllion
Wilderness Hypnotist
Woodlurker Mimic
Clout of the Dominus
Smoldering Butcher
Grazing Kelpie

okay red is flowing good

Pack 3 pick 5:
Impelled Giant
Scourge of the Nobilis
--> Heartlash Cinder
Talara's Bane
Nettle Sentinel
Cenn's Enlistment
Suture Spirit
Banishing Knack
Slippery Bogle
Shell Skulkin
Soul Reap

Pack 3 pick 6:
Oona's Grace (FOIL)
Selkie Hedge-Mage
Jawbone Skulkin
Odious Trow
Merrow Levitator
--> Rendclaw Trow
Oona's Grace
Duskdale Wurm
Double Cleave
Stream Hopper

Pack 3 pick 7:
Talara's Bane
Endure
--> Riverfall Mimic
Tilling Treefolk
Kithkin Zealot
Cinder Pyromancer
Trapjaw Kelpie
Aerie Ouphes
Fang Skulkin

Pack 3 pick 8:
Hotheaded Giant
--> Shorecrasher Mimic
Favor of the Overbeing
Noggle Ransacker
Grazing Kelpie
Shell Skulkin
Nip Gwyllion
Odious Trow

Pack 3 pick 9:
Monstrify
Woodlurker Mimic
Merrow Bonegnawer
Hoof Skulkin
Glamerdye
--> Heartlash Cinder
Restless Apparition

Pack 3 pick 10:
Tilling Treefolk
Unnerving Assault
Jawbone Skulkin
Trapjaw Kelpie
Talonrend
--> Raven's Crime

Pack 3 pick 11:
Gift of the Deity
Indigo Faerie
--> Inside Out
Merrow Bonegnawer
Altar Golem

Pack 3 pick 12:
Kithkin Spellduster
--> Wilderness Hypnotist
Smoldering Butcher
Grazing Kelpie

Pack 3 pick 13:
--> Nettle Sentinel
Slippery Bogle
Shell Skulkin

Pack 3 pick 14:
Jawbone Skulkin
--> Merrow Levitator

Pack 3 pick 15:
--> Endure

The deck

1 crimon wisp
1 elsewhere flak
2 heartlash cinder
1 mudbrawler cohort
1 riverfall mimic
1 sootstoke kindler
1 tattermunge witch
2 puncture blast
1 snamkeform
2 ashenmoor gourger
1 cinder pyromancer
1 burn trail
1 mudbrawller raiders
1 murderous redcap
1 sootwalkers
1 wildslayer elves
1 runes of the deus
1 scuzzback mauraders
1 wort the raid mother
1 Howl of the night pack
13 mountains
4 forest

This deck had a much combo feel to it than my normal deck, as well as an aggresive edge and some powerfull cards.

Round 1 my opponent had never played the format before and was low 1500 he had a mass calcify game 2 but he was at 2 and i had burn trail in hand.
Round 2 my opponet was mono white the first game i get on some early beats but he stabalizes and really does not take advantage of the board and gives me forever to top deck beating down with only the 1/2 flier first striker when he had a 7/7 kithkin rabble plus other fatties, i already have wort and topdeck burn trail which i double conspire for the win. Game 2 the 1/2 first striker flyer hold of most my early beats, he then gets the rw god aura on it and does a fair bit of damage dropping to 7 before i am able to snake form the goblin and get rid of it, from here despite being on 7 a spitemare is unable to stop my runesd up mauraders from winning game.
Round 3 My opponent was uw I get an aggresive curve whilst he does very little and must i assume be flooded, all he does is unmake a ashenmoor gouger and block a marudaer with a chainbreaker before conceding. Game 2 i am once agian able to apply some early pressure with tuen 2 heartlash cinder, turn 3 gouger though he has safehold sentry, he keeps leaving mana open and passing turn so i play it caustiously not runesing up my mudbrawler raiders, he eventually double bounces raiders plus goger with banashing knack and equips his safehold sentry with armored accesnsion making it a 5/5, but i deus up my raiders and attack him down 2, he has a curse of chains for it but i have burn trail already in hand ftw.

Feedback appreciated.
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Alvaro21k



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stopped when you didnt took the invocation, that card is totally nuts.
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah i cant see you not taking innvocation.

this also made me stop reading.

i dont know how you would want to pass that card, then draft a red card. the guy next to you is going to try and go heavy into red after being pased a red bomb
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WaMMaSaNDe



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with Trotsky with his 1p1p. Invocation is not as good as it looks like: it's really really hard to splash and does nothing when it hits board. You are going to play it in a heavy red deck and in such deck Burn Trail is just rediculous: 2for1, removal and 3 to the dome or 'just' 4cc 6 to the dome. You also have to discard cards to Invocation you usually want to play rather than convert into direct damage and you waste your crucial 3 drop playing card that does nothing. And where Invocation is next to impossible to splash effectively and commits you to draft red, Burn Trail has easy cost and leaves your options open.

When it comes to the other picks, you really screwed many of them in my opinion. I find just funny how you pull yourself out of trouble with lucky late picks like 2nd Gouger 5th pick and double Puncture Blast.

For example p1p10 Cohort which your earlier picks doesn't support at all beacause you have picked high cc RG ramp stuff and green acceleration and then you 'hate draft' cnext to unplayable Advice from the Fae over Scrapper which works really well with Cohort. I'm not telling you Cohort is bad - in fact it's really good in aggressive deck, Scar is just a lot better for fatties.dec as it provides cheap early defence/combat trick.

P1p7 is so wrong, Howl forces you to draft heavy green/infinite easily wins you the race because it hits the board so early and 4/4 trample is painful to block.

There is a lot of other mispicks I could comment but I'm running out of time.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah i think the howl was a mispick but all that i could keep thinking in my head at the time was wort wort wort, I think i was in a funny mood. I did leave it kind of late to decide if i was mana ramp or fatties, i took the late cohort as a signal that the aggresive red deck was open which is why i took it over the scar, plus i like aggresive decks much more than slower decks in this format it paid off, they just seem so much better. From there every pick i made was tailored too the aggresive deck except the devoted druid pick where i think it was the best card in the pack anyway and if things went terribly wrong i could still play.

Im amazed anyone agrees with me on innovaction thats all i have to say on that. People have agreed with me other board about this also so looks like opinions are split.
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coolcreep



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 588

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

knollspine is a bomb that just wins games. I have never played a game where I played knollspine and regretted it. Sometimes it just picks off every serious threat they play and lets your creatures come in, and other times you just throw 20 damage at their head before their creatures can kill you. There is really no point in my reading this draft, the whole time i will be thinking "omg he passed knollspine".
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dv8r



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yay, a draft I will have something to talk about for once

p1p1
NO. Knollspine invocating is on a comparable power level to oona. Stormbind did nothing without another card too.

Whilst I wont for one second say that Knollspine is comparable to one of the alltime top powerful limited cards (probably after jitte and masticore), it is pretty close. Kill their evasion guys or blockers, or just finish them off. This card does EVERYTHING. Burn trail is merely very powerful, it's not really a bomb (except in mono red aggro decks).

p1p4
With both Gnarled Effigy and Ember Gale in this pack I honestly see no reason why you would take Wildslayer Elves. ESPECIALLY after the early burn trail. I'm honestly curious (in as non trollish a way as possible) what your thought logic was for this pick....

p1p5
Pyre Charger or Sootwalkers depending on how open you think red is (bare in mind you got passed a Wort p1p2). I would probably take Charger having taken Effigy previous pick. Because I don't understand your previous pick, I can't really comment on flask here...

p1p6
Having not taken Effigy, you can make a very good argument here for Illuminated Folio. I would take Walkers, many players I know would not.

p1p7
I know I rarely say this and I believe in drafting open to interpretation, but this pick is just wrong. Spriggin is better even in a mono green deck, and you're clearly not going to be playing over 7 forests unless something very strange happens over the next two packs.

p1p9
Mono red is clearly open at this point, take the Slinking Giant which is a powerhouse in the archtype. The Wildslayer Elves you took pick 4 is really messing your draft up at this point.

p1p10
I agree with this pick, that's all there is to say really.

p1p11
Scrapper on the off chance you get 2 power of fire or conspire cards next pack as you have no wither or untappers at the moment.

p1p12
Scarecrow is a 3/3 haste, you will never play niveous wisps and it's horrible against you anyway.

p1p13
How lucky.

p2p4
At this point I'm mono red so Spiteflame Witch is one of the best cards I could hope to get passed. Even with your current picks, I still think it's the correct pick as I don't see a strong pull into green (all you have are wildslayer elves and howl, which you are almost certain not to play anyway)

p2p5
At this point you should easily win the draft unless you mess up badly.

p2p6
That a late skulk, with 2 gougers, the scar pick last pack is looking better.... Kindler is of course the easy pick.


p3p1
Again, I find this pick confusing. You have flame jab, one of the best mono red cards in the set when you even say p2p5 that you will be mono red. Or Snakeform, a great cards but an almost certain splash that is weaker than an available card for your archtype. If you were short on playables at this point I can understand Snakeform as you could surely fill your deck up with the deep eventide green. But aside from the late spriggin/howl you haven't even seen anything to suggest green is open whereas red and black clearly are.

p3p2
Lets pass the best mono red card in the set (Crackleburr) for a solid removal spell... Ok, to be honest its not as simple as that, as you ARE short on removal and reach at this point. But really? Crackleburr is just SO good, unanswered it just wins games by itself.

p3p6
I'm partial to Stream Hopper in mono red myself, it's cheap, evasive and helps your curve and conspire late game, not to mention synegy with pyromancer. Rendclaw trow is a fine hate draft though as its one of the few good answers to all your gougers.

p3p7
I wouldn't criticize pyromancer here. It's simply amazing in mono red.

p3p10
Tilling treefolk is a better hate draft. When I'm green I love to side in random 1/3s against mono red and its hoard of 1 thoughness guys.

p3p11
That's a late gift....

p3p15
That's a VERY late endure.

On your final build:
Wait, you won't take 2 elsewhere flasks for Jaws of Stone but you happily play Howl of the Night Pack off 4 forests? To be frank, this is the worst of the drafts you have posted on this site to date and I think you got particularly lucky due to the fact that people on your table had clearly no idea how good mono red was. In previous drafts I've understood the logic of picks even if I disagree with them, in this draft there are at least 4, maybe 5 picks where I just look at the pick, then try to reason it out logically from a different perspective and still can't understand why you made the pick.


EDIT:
In fact, this might be useful for me too....
Please explain your logic behind the following picks in more detail if you have time (ignore p1p1 and p2p4 if you dont):

p1p1 (ok, I kind of understand this one even though I disagree with it)

p1p4

p1p5

p1p7

p2p4 (again, not a priority one, I almost agree with it, just curious for my own thoughts)

p3p1

p3p2
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pack 1 pick 1 Every time but once when ive played vs this card I have won, everytime I have played it I have lost and all of this was before the format got even faster. The card does nothing by itself so im effectively down a card. I top deck it late game after I have exhauseted all my resources into winning the on board battle it does very little burn trail immediate impact possibly winning the game there and then.

pack 1 pick 4 I am not definatly set into mono red yet and as I already have a witch the most likely colour I am going to be pairing red with is green so although I am not set on playing it I think the elves is the strongest card in the pack. I find effigy too slow and although embergale is a good card in my experience you can pick them up much later so i did not take it.

pack 1 pick 5 I have not seen very much good red early and I am not sure that its open, and although I am not the biggest fan of elsewhere flask with that in mind it seems like the pick here.

pack 1 pick 7 I really do not like green as you know but if there is one card I really like in green its howl of the night pack, at this point in the draft with these 2 cards in the pack I am now firmly under the impression green is open. The dream of conspiring with wort was what settled the matter i was in a johnny combo sort of mood. I agree looking back now it was a mistake.

pack 2 pick 4 Although red is flowing nicely pack 2, Im not certain it will pack 3, i already have some spells to ramp into and although im hoping not to play it, I think it is the pick.

pack 3 pick 1 I was not expecting red to flow as well as it did pack 3 at this point in my mind I did not belive I would be going mono red, also red is not a colour I draft very much but more so now as I think the buzz about it is dying down and its open more often hence my evaluations for red cards are probably my weakest after green, is flamejab really on a par with snakeform possible top common in set.


pack 3 pick 2 I have wort, overall i think this card does not suit my deck stratergy as it is effectivly a control card which is going to stop my men from turning sideways, I was not fully confidant at the time that I would always have enough red cratures to use its ability. There is so much more good removal in eventide that I felt puncture blast was a safer bet. Im glad someone brought this up looking at this now I agree it was the wrong choice.

On a final hint on understanding my perspective from this draft all you have to think is wort, if you permantly have what you could do with wort in mind at the forefront of your head thats how i was thinking all draft. I had read about this guy who got to conspire din of the fireherd with wort out on wizards.com and felt inspired to do similar feats.

On the Jaws thing, i was stuggling for playables the howl was either the 22nd or 23rd card in my deck. I am far more likely tp pick elsewhere flaks if im not so certain what colours I will end up being which at the time I was not, as the cards I was getting passed did not really leave me pack 1 with the impression red was open.
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Alvaro21k



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you think one of your picks is good and after asking people to rate your draft and help you with it you simply deny something must people tell you that was a bad pick, then stop asking for these, a lot of people are tired of it already.
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toor



Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burn Trail is so much better then knollspine its disgusting. Honestly I would doubt the credibility of anyone who doesnt make that pick.


Knollspine is so much worse for a bunch of simple reasons.

DOesnt help you when you flood.
Not super efficient in a beat down deck. Wastes your turn 3 if its in your oppener.
Not a 2 for one usually.
Red Decks try to keep their curves low. So it takes a lot of cards to take care of your opponents.

2nd Pick he took common over silkbind. Probably means he took burn trail (they are also in a run). So you should be taking silkbind here again not even close.

I take
Burn Trail
Silkbind
Consign
Gnarled Effigy

I also like torrent over runes as a speculative pick since u already have one flask put thats a personal thing.
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