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4-3-2-2 SSE draft 6



 
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: 4-3-2-2 SSE draft 6 Reply with quote

This is another 4-3-2-2 draft i won again.

Event #: 65416
Time: 8/30/2008 11:35:11 PM
Players:
Niktus
copycat_1981
BadBeatBret
--> ElementalMox
MonstrousGrowth
Night_Dragon_Spirit
Sorrowborne
torajima

------ SHM ------

Pack 1 pick 1:
Blight Sickle
--> Ballynock Cohort
Crabapple Cohort
Traitor's Roar
Gravelgill Duo
Torture
Whimwader
Toil to Renown
Thornwatch Scarecrow
Rustrazor Butcher
Safewright Quest
Madblind Mountain
Mercy Killing
Grief Tyrant
Everlasting Torment

The white cohort is the strongest card so i took it.

Pack 1 pick 2:
Fists of the Demigod
--> Rune-Cervin Rider
Juvenile Gloomwidow
Tattermunge Duo
Sickle Ripper
Torpor Dust
Aphotic Wisps
Woeleecher
Memory Sluice
Blazethorn Scarecrow
Slinking Giant
Guttural Response
Howl of the Night Pack
Impromptu Raid

I was tempted to take the howl but i really like staying mono and i think cervin rider has got alot better with eventide.

Pack 1 pick 3:
Blight Sickle
Somnomancer
Crabapple Cohort
Æthertow
Gravelgill Axeshark
Sootstoke Kindler
Emberstrike Duo
Gleeful Sabotage
Kithkin Shielddare
Prismwake Merrow
Inescapable Brute
Umbral Mantle
--> Mistmeadow Skulk

Thats a promising sign that white is open and i believe the best card in the pack.

Pack 1 pick 4:
Helm of the Ghastlord
--> Rune-Cervin Rider
Scuzzback Marauders
Disturbing Plot
Whimwader
Viridescent Wisps
Ashenmoor Cohort
Thornwatch Scarecrow
Cursecatcher
Bloodmark Mentor
Howl of the Night Pack
Counterbore

Alot of good green coming but im sticking to my mono white plan

Pack 1 pick 5:
Parapet Watchers
--> Watchwing Scarecrow
Sootstoke Kindler
Mine Excavation
Spell Syphon
Inescapable Brute
Foxfire Oak
Splitting Headache
Blowfly Infestation
Mercy Killing
Elemental Mastery

Quite a weak pack i do not rate mercy killing scarecrow is fine though.

Pack 1 pick 6:
Juvenile Gloomwidow
Gravelgill Axeshark
Woeleecher
Prismwake Merrow
Crimson Wisps
Viridescent Wisps
Cinderbones
Leechridden Swamp
--> Raking Canopy
Memory Plunder

Nothing really in here for me, I already have a few aerial creatures so i hated the canopy

Pack 1 pick 7:
Rattleblaze Scarecrow
Nurturer Initiate
Blazethorn Scarecrow
Spell Syphon
Rustrazor Butcher
Kithkin Shielddare
Revelsong Horn
--> Pale Wayfarer
Illuminated Folio

Im not sure if the wayfarer or folio is better but i prefer aggresive decks in this format that empty there hands fast, so i took the wayfarer

Pack 1 pick 8:
--> Parapet Watchers
Fate Transfer
Poison the Well
Gleeful Sabotage
Ashenmoor Cohort
Apothecary Initiate
Beseech the Queen
Polluted Bonds

I have already passed alot of green so i let the sabbotage go and went with the watchers as i could play them

Pack 1 pick 9:
Blight Sickle
Traitor's Roar
Toil to Renown
Thornwatch Scarecrow
Rustrazor Butcher
--> Safewright Quest
Madblind Mountain

I have not ruled out green entirely though but this pick is fine even in mono white.

Pack 1 pick 10:
Aphotic Wisps
Woeleecher
Memory Sluice
--> Slinking Giant
Guttural Response
Impromptu Raid

Seems late i could still also go red.

Pack 1 pick 11:
Blight Sickle
Emberstrike Duo
--> Kithkin Shielddare
Prismwake Merrow
Inescapable Brute

Pack 1 pick 12:
Disturbing Plot
Viridescent Wisps
Ashenmoor Cohort
--> Cursecatcher

Pack 1 pick 13:
Mine Excavation
Inescapable Brute
--> Foxfire Oak

Pack 1 pick 14:
Woeleecher
--> Crimson Wisps

Pack 1 pick 15:
--> Rattleblaze Scarecrow

------ SHM ------

Pack 2 pick 1:
Chainbreaker
Silkbind Faerie
Consign to Dream
Oona's Gatewarden
Runes of the Deus
Safehold Duo
Loch Korrigan
Ember Gale
Niveous Wisps
Loamdragger Giant
Drowner Initiate
--> Spectral Procession
Puresight Merrow
Merrow Grimeblotter
Wort, the Raidmother

Silkbind faerie vs spectral procession which is better Im not sure but i settled on the procession

Pack 2 pick 2:
--> Scuttlemutt
Old Ghastbark
Merrow Wavebreakers
Scar
Mudbrawler Cohort
Raven's Run Dragoon
Manaforge Cinder
Scuzzback Scrapper
Elvish Hexhunter
Goldenglow Moth
Zealous Guardian
Corrupt
Tattermunge Witch
Drove of Elves

Solid pick

Pack 2 pick 3:
Runes of the Deus
Medicine Runner
Kinscaer Harpoonist
Cinderhaze Wretch
Farhaven Elf
Scarscale Ritual
Intimidator Initiate
Sinking Feeling
Inquisitor's Snare
Gloomwidow's Feast
--> Plumeveil
Glamer Spinners
Deepchannel Mentor

Pack 2 pick 4:
Morselhoarder
Wingrattle Scarecrow
Shield of the Oversoul
Merrow Wavebreakers
Boggart Arsonists
Elvish Hexhunter
Smash to Smithereens
Smolder Initiate
Strip Bare
--> Jaws of Stone
Grief Tyrant
Corrosive Mentor

I do not like splashing for these sort of things of flasks but i took it anyway as it is so much better than anything else in the pack very late, and there is nothing exciting in the pack for me anyway.

Pack 2 pick 5:
Briarberry Cohort
Safehold Sentry
Consign to Dream
Blistering Dieflyn
Rite of Consumption
Bloodshed Fever
Loamdragger Giant
Put Away
Turn to Mist
--> Armored Ascension
Dream Salvage

Bingo! no one likes the mono cycle cards is this draft.

Pack 2 pick 6:
Briarberry Cohort (FOIL)
Wanderbrine Rootcutters
Scar
Boggart Arsonists
Intimidator Initiate
Elsewhere Flask
--> Niveous Wisps
Zealous Guardian
Corrupt
Roughshod Mentor

As demonstarted by that ridicoulous late corrupt, tough call between wisp and cohort, cohort is better but not enough to decided to go into blue for and thw white wisp in the best of the lot.

Pack 2 pick 7:
Chainbreaker
Last Breath
Blistering Dieflyn
Cerulean Wisps
Ember Gale
Smolder Initiate
Gloomwidow's Feast
Wild Swing
--> Mass Calcify

Wow cutting white pack 1 has sure paid off with some late bombs.

Pack 2 pick 8:
--> Medicine Runner
Ghastly Discovery
Pili-Pala
Bloodshed Fever
Manamorphose
Turn to Mist
Scarscale Ritual
Inkfathom Witch

I think it a close call with turn to mist but i needed early beaters quite badly.

Pack 2 pick 9:
Chainbreaker
Oona's Gatewarden
Loch Korrigan
Ember Gale
--> Niveous Wisps
Loamdragger Giant
Drowner Initiate

Smile

Pack 2 pick 10:
Mudbrawler Cohort
--> Raven's Run Dragoon
Manaforge Cinder
Scuzzback Scrapper
Elvish Hexhunter
Goldenglow Moth

After all the green i passed pack 1 that is surprising

Pack 2 pick 11:
--> Runes of the Deus
Cinderhaze Wretch
Scarscale Ritual
Sinking Feeling
Deepchannel Mentor

Pack 2 pick 12:
--> Merrow Wavebreakers
Smash to Smithereens
Smolder Initiate
Strip Bare

Pack 2 pick 13:
Rite of Consumption
--> Put Away
Dream Salvage

Pack 2 pick 14:
Boggart Arsonists
--> Intimidator Initiate

Pack 2 pick 15:
--> Blistering Dieflyn

------ EVE ------

Pack 3 pick 1:
Fire at Will
Nightsky Mimic
Bloodied Ghost
Noggle Bridgebreaker
Mindwrack Liege
Shell Skulkin
Favor of the Overbeing
Oona's Grace
Duskdale Wurm
Smoldering Butcher
Slippery Bogle
Savage Conception
Beckon Apparition
Dream Thief
--> Recumbent Bliss

Removal best card in pack

Pack 3 pick 2:
Noggle Bandit
Shorecrasher Mimic
Wilderness Hypnotist
Flame Jab
Woodlurker Mimic
Raven's Crime
Hobgoblin Dragoon
Cenn's Enlistment
Invert the Skies
--> Unmake
Overbeing of Myth
Noggle Hedge-Mage
Drain the Well
Kithkin Spellduster

2nd best card in pack after the bomb, maybe its better even but i can not play the bomb anyway.

Pack 3 pick 3:
Dream Fracture
Outrage Shaman
Grazing Kelpie
--> Battlegate Mimic
Harvest Gwyllion
Favor of the Overbeing
Helix Pinnacle
Antler Skulkin
Hoof Skulkin
Inside Out
Nip Gwyllion
Suture Spirit
Odious Trow

Much needed early drop

Pack 3 pick 4:
Clout of the Dominus
Shell Skulkin
--> Fire at Will
Idle Thoughts
Monstrify
Nettle Sentinel
Beckon Apparition
Smoldering Butcher
Savage Conception
Battlegate Mimic
Wilderness Hypnotist
Merrow Levitator

Works well with fire at will

Pack 3 pick 5:
Stream Hopper
Rendclaw Trow
Noggle Bandit
Duskdale Wurm (FOIL)
Duergar Mine-Captain
Grazing Kelpie
--> Recumbent Bliss
Fang Skulkin
Razorfin Abolisher
Double Cleave
Talara's Bane

Oh yeah thats late!

Pack 3 pick 6:
Impelled Giant
Slippery Bogle
--> Restless Apparition
Cenn's Enlistment
Scourge of the Nobilis
Cinder Pyromancer
Jawbone Skulkin
Odious Trow
Clout of the Dominus
Springjack Shepherd

This should be great in my mono white deck, I now have a load of good creatures to pump my excess mana into.

Pack 3 pick 7:
Edge of the Divinity
Shorecrasher Mimic
Tilling Treefolk
Nettle Sentinel
Trapjaw Kelpie (FOIL)
Soot Imp
Hoof Skulkin
--> Double Cleave
Talara's Bane

This card has been really good whenever ive played it.

Pack 3 pick 8:
--> Duergar Assailant
Drain the Well
Gift of the Deity
Kithkin Zealot
Hotheaded Giant
Antler Skulkin
Trapjaw Kelpie
Moonhold

Still need early drops, the zealot is an option but I think i already have quite a good deck for dealing with mono red alot of life gain cards.

Pack 3 pick 9:
--> Fire at Will
Noggle Bridgebreaker
Shell Skulkin
Oona's Grace
Duskdale Wurm
Smoldering Butcher
Beckon Apparition

So much removal in eventide

Pack 3 pick 10:
Shorecrasher Mimic
Wilderness Hypnotist
Hobgoblin Dragoon
--> Cenn's Enlistment
Invert the Skies
Drain the Well

Fine for the late game

Pack 3 pick 11:
Dream Fracture
Favor of the Overbeing
Antler Skulkin
Nip Gwyllion
--> Suture Spirit

Fine early drop

Pack 3 pick 12:
Shell Skulkin
Idle Thoughts
--> Battlegate Mimic
Wilderness Hypnotist

Hurrah i was not expecting that

Pack 3 pick 13:
--> Duergar Mine-Captain
Fang Skulkin
Talara's Bane

Pack 3 pick 14:
Impelled Giant
--> Jawbone Skulkin

Pack 3 pick 15:
--> Talara's Bane

The deck

2 niverous wisp
1 duergar assailant
2 battlegate mimic
1 medicine runner
1 mistmeadow skulk
1 suture spirit
1 fire at will
1 spectral procession
1 unmake
2 recumberent bliss
1 scuttlemutt
1 ballynock cohort
1 Duegar Mine Captain
1 restless apperation
1 cenn's enlistment
1 armoured accemsion
1 ravens run dragoon
2 rune cervin rider
1 Mass calcify
17 plains

sb cards of note

1 fire at will
1 double cleave
1 plumeveil
1 plaewayfarer
1 safewright quest

Leaving the plume in the side may same odd as well as fire at will, but i had to much removal and not enough men who turned sideways for the deck, so allthough they are better cards than some in the deck this makes for a better curve and better overall balance of spells for the stratergy i am looking to employ.

Round 1 paired vs gr fattie.dec, i get on some early beats, he is always leaving mana open so i do not play acension, jst keep beating in air with rider, he eventually taps out for a creature, i accension up a dork and win in the next turn. Game 2 he does very little early and seems to be having difficulties i wisp his grief tyrant and go in with apperation and double pump with help of mutt and drop him to 8, he drops valleymaker but i have another wisp plus enough mana to force him to chump block with it and mass calcify in hand at this point he loses connection and times out though.

Round 2 paired vs gb, we both start hitting each other with mimics, however he has vocicous hatching i need to deal with and forces me more on defensive, he lays more fat and genrates card advantage through desecrator hag, he has 6 cards in hand i ahve 1 mass calcify but two of his craetures are white, im too far behind for calcify to make a difference and lose, game 2 he never plays anything but 2 swamps as i curve out fast, Game 3 we beat each other back and forth a little with mimics, i double bliss his fatteis and start beating with enlistment tokens, leaving skulk back in defnce with calcify in hand and mana to cast, eventually i draw accension hit him for a massive ammount, turn after i play mass calcify he has snake form for my accesioned creature but, thanks the the calcify I am still able to push through exactly lethal.

Round 3 paired vs bw I get a gassy start as does he, we are both beating in the air but my biss is helping win me the race, he plays the 4/5 flier that stops you from being targetted, I have enough mana to attack through with cervin rider and lay another though, he is forced on the defensive and double cervin rider eventually win the game. Game 2 I curve out with assilant battle gate mimic cohort, but he has turn 2 snare turn 3 soul reap, i ahve procession though, he eventually makes kithkinspell dutster i attack in and fire at will it, next attack step he has scar for assilant and i lose a token, it goes into draw go with me beating with skulk i draw cervin rider and he is forced into chumping, rider wins game.

Feedback appreciated.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you could have easily played less lands and cut mass calcify as it is too slow for your deck, you should have won by turn 7 or later. this isnt about your draft but a comment i had when reading was you kept saying how like 5th pick was late but its rly not late at all, when your mono coloured and you get good picks you expect things to table or good cards get to you but 5-6th isnt rly late, late is when something tables.
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rdeg87



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The second Fire-at-Will is easily better than Mass Calcify
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coolcreep



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 588

PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Folio over wayfarer and shield over jaws.
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Zapgaze
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have so many problems with your picks, it's actually not very funny.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gypsy I loathe running less than 17 lands so its very rare that i do, i got the same criticism on the other board, my justifaction was the calcify plus the pump creatures gave me something to do with my excess mana, also i had a retrace card, plus my general experience of losing at least one game to screw when ever i run less than 17 lands.

rdeg87 I diagree with the fireatwill being better than the calcify, often with a deck like this you can force stalemates due to lifetotal, where you have plenty of time for calcify mana to be drawn and win you the game this was the case in round 2.

coolcreep folio wayafarer is a close one and from what you have said already i can not really be surprised at the shield over the jaws.

Zapgaze that comment is not very helpfull, atleast give us some idea where the problems you have arise.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

running fewer lands is better even if u have stuff to put your extra land into, like ive run 17 in limited so many times that i do it out of habit, but its usually incorrect, in mono colored it should never be 17 lands
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes i no what your saying is right its just i can never bring myself to run less than 17 lands unless my curve is really really low and then i almost always regret it.
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coolcreep



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 588

PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gypsy wrote:
running fewer lands is better even if u have stuff to put your extra land into, like ive run 17 in limited so many times that i do it out of habit, but its usually incorrect, in mono colored it should never be 17 lands


Utterly incorrect. There are plenty of monodecks that should run 17. If a deck is very strong, has a high curve, and has things to do with excess lands, then why would you risk mana issues by playing 16 land? Never say never.
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dv8r



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I havent had internet for a few days so I will summarise in brief some points instead of summarising each draft (I`ll do this one though)

Firstly, I don`t care who your friends are or what their ratings are. "Crabapple Cohort is good because player x likes it" is AWFUL logical argument. There are many different drafting styles which may be incompatible with yours, and getting in a strop with people who are going out of their way to help you is pretty ungracious. Also, even good players have their pet cards which other people dont seem to "get" (a good recent example is zac hills love of loamdragger giant). Understand why people think the card is good (even if you don´t respect them as players), not that they do. I know it sounds a bit pompous and all, but when you are able to do that, then you can really begin to raise your game to the next level. Learning to think in that way is more useful than anything I or anyone else can do when analysing your drafts...



On Crabapple Cohort and Ghastly Demise:
Crabapple cohort is good because it is at worst a 4/4 in a format that is doinated by generic 3/3s for 4. When played before turn 5 it puts your opponent under serious pressure in terms of tempo and will dominate the board if topdecked in the late game.

However, it is at the end of the day JUST that, a generic, non-evasive midgame drop which can be chump blocked, tapped, removed etc. Furthermore, cohort isn`t even the BEST green 5 drop, both Scuzzback Marauders and Aerie Ouphes are better at common and Old Ghastback does a pretty good job at filling in the dumb beater role as well. In sum, whilst cohort is a solid card that is capable at what it does, it shouldnt really be a VERY early pick simply because other cards do the same job and you only need at most 3-5 of that sort of card in your deck. Compare this to Ballynock Cohort (a card I am happy to take first) which covers a weak slot in the Mono White curve and frequently trades with card more expensive than itself, if at all, not to mention its strength against wither, dominating the board in the crucial turn 3-5 of a game.



Ghastly Discovery is a card that I dont like at all; and the reason for this is that it simply doesnt do enough things well enough. As a filter card (without conspire) to help you hit your land drops and draw into bombs, it is passable, but still worse than say a random parapet watcher, which, with mana untapped can buy you a LOT of time, certainly more than two drawsteps. Even a primwake merrow, trading with a random 2/1 can buy you two draw steps if need be.

As a late game card advantage card its fine, but lacks the game ending potential of Uncommon powerhouses in this cateogary such as Gnarled Effigy, Flow of Ideas, the 3U 2: draw a card if no cards in hand enchantment, or witches. In fact, by the time ghastly discovery becomes REALLY good, it is often just better to play a loamdragger giant and trade it for 2 3/3s or something.

As an early game conspire spell its also pretty weak, costing you 4 (often evasive) damage of attacks to your opponents life total in exchange for 4 new cards (at +1 card advantage). This is ironically PARTICULARLY weak in blue which relies heavily on tempo to win due to the lack of removal in the colour (compared to say white) to deal with quality midgame drops (such as Crabapple Cohort). Hence the fact that Consign to Dreams and Banishing Knack are high picks in SSE, whereas Ghastly Discovery is not, even though it appears in isolation to be quite a potent card drawer.

A good example of a card that DOES fit into the strategy of its colour quite well is disturbing plot; which is good at stalling early, returning cheap wither men in black at 1 for 1, and in the late game allows you to return evasion men or even random midrange guys such as gravelgill axeshark, feeding into the attritional style of black in this format. Hence the fact that disturbing plot is a better card in SSE, even though in most other formats it would not be.


Mana Base
I generally try to follow the 17 and a half (draft) - 18 land (sealed) rule. Counting each mana accelerator and cantrip that costs 2 or less at half a land and always rounding up. I also count safewright quest as a land rather than half a land (but not everyone I know does).

For land mix. I count mana symbols on a sliding scale, and then use own analysis to decide between say a 12/5 or 11/6 mana base.

The Formula is essentially as follows:
For each card that costs 3 mana count or less which you need to play on curve, count the mana symbols on the card. So in a GW Deck, Puresight Merrow is WW, Ballyknock Cohort is W but prison term, which is still great on turn 5 does not go here.

For each card that costs 4 and each cheap card that you dont need to play early on and has tricky mana costs, divide colour commitment by 2 and round up. Thus Unmake is WW, Barrenton Cragheads is W.

For each card that costs 5 and each non splashed removal spell that doesnt have 3 coloured mana symbols, divide by 2 without rounding. Recumbent Bliss is 1/2W.

Ignore cards that costs 6 or more in your main colours.

OK, enough banter, more draft analysis:
p1p3
Good pick, many people underrate this and I dont knoz why...

p1p6
Surely you have to take Woeleacher here..., raking canopy is not a great answer to runed cervix rider and Woeleacher is great vs 3/3s and has synegy with persist not to mention good racing capability.

p1p7
Folio is not actually all that bad in aggressive decks, especially mono colour ones. I would take it.

p1p8
I think green is only truly powerful pack 3, so it doesnt matter what you are passing, only that you keep seeing green.

p1p10
Apparently ppl dont like 4 mana 4/4s.


p2p3
Did you just miss Glammer Spinners....

p2p4
I´m fine with hatedrafting from this pack.

p2p6
I´d take flask, but you already know that. Correct choice imo for you.

p2p7
Even if your deck was incredibly aggressive you would still play Wrath of God or Sacred Mesa, ignore the criticism around Calcify, good aggro decks have a plan B (folio is also a good plan b)


p3p2
This pack is SO good for you because you are close to guarenteed spelldusters or enlistment on the wheel.

p3p5
Its picks like this that make me question the usefulness of 4-3-2-2 drafts once youve established your own drafting style, which I think you have now. Take the step up if you are serious about getting better.

p3p9
See above
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My argument was not with the criticsm but how it was put across he was being quite rude but thats all in the past now anyway.

Glammer spinners over plumeveil really thats easily the most contreversial thing you have said, even knowing for certain then i would be a beat down deck. I have been told on other forum not running the the plumeveil was a mistake because the card is simply that good pointing out that a card like medicine runner is never going to win games but if you look as magic as more of a relay, then he can certainly win you the game with how strong his inital run is and its the entire team that earns the game win not just the one that crosses the finishing line for lethal.

Im not a fan of woeleecher can honestly say ive never run one in a deck, though i know players who swear by him in combination with barreton medic. So i guess i underate the card.

P2P7 its very hard for me to determine what advice to ignore and what to follow even if i think the advice is really bad i like to take the time to respond to it after all it is my thread and i would be quite rude to just ignore it. Hence why i may get into some arguments but i like to think its not only me these things are helping. The only thing i have to judge on is either rating if i know it and how the advice is put across, plus my own judgement.

I will play 8-4s when they fire but you can count on a 4-3-2-2 to fire at least every 2-5 minutes everyday, the same is not the case with 8-4s on modo.

In terms of how serious i am I like to challenge myself but i have no intention of playing magic again outside of modo, I have no assperations of winning a ptq, gp, pro tour whatever you like anymore and having fun is more important to me than anything else, count me in as one of thoose people who classes having an intelligent debate particulary if its about magic as fun, and i can have more fun by playing 4-3-2-2s for the most part as they will sustain me for further, I never paid for anything more than the 4 drafts set i bought of ravnica playing solely 4-3-2-2s being infinite is fun. I did do one 8-4 and i lost first round and decided hell its working out for me in the 4-3-2-2s so i will keep doing them. Maybe if i can get my rating back over 1800 which it has not been since start of lorwyn and keep it there for a month or so then i would be willing to see if i can go the next step to winning 8-4s consitantly but that can be very tough game, ive ran into tables purely by accident where a rather unhappy prior to fame ManuelB was paired vs a 1900 called tiago_chan doesnt take a genious to figure out who they are, you could proably get easier tables in the finals of GPs, though some can in truth be just as bad as 4-3-2-2s no one can control who enters the things hell i can.

Anyway thanks for the feedback.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ya good players join all the 8-4s. almost every t2 8man i join like kenji is in playing some jap deck and winning
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dv8r



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

glammer spinners is a 2/4 which is HUGE, and gives you a way to weaken removal spells such as recumbent bliss and nullify god auras, not to mention the fact that it has flash and attacks through almost every flyer in the set (as they tend to be 2/2s), its also a lot easier to cast. This doesnt mean that plumeveil is not the correct pick (thats arguable) or that you shouldnt play it if you have it (clearly you should), but the point is that this should be a very hard pick and you dont even mention the option of spinners. This indicates to me that you either didnt see it, or dont think its very good :S
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do like glammer spinners but I would not think anyone who could easily cast it would consider it over plumveil so i never mentioned it.
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coolcreep



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 588

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glamer spinners is great, but as you have already mentioned dv8r, this set is ruled by 3/3 dorks for 4. Plumeveil is pretty much guarenteed card advantage, while simultaneously grabbing control of the board by putting up a big fat wall. If I saw this situation, I would think of spinners only in passing before taking plumeveil. I love spinners, I really do, but Plumeveil is a lot more universal in the way it swings games.
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