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Another 4-3-2-2 SSE to critic


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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: Another 4-3-2-2 SSE to critic Reply with quote

Another 4-3-2-2 sse draft for you all to critic, this time i lost in finals.

Event #: 60029
Time: 8/22/2008 12:30:02 AM
Players:
Ben Bleiweiss
Crosby
Aspectwolf
--> ElementalMox
easydropd
votanthewise
ChelseaFC2017
soze

------ SHM ------

Pack 1 pick 1:
Oona's Gatewarden
Burn Trail
Wildslayer Elves
Cinderhaze Wretch
Silkbind Faerie
Wanderbrine Rootcutters
Niveous Wisps
Zealous Guardian
Rite of Consumption
Bloodshed Fever
Loamdragger Giant
Flourishing Defenses
Murderous Redcap
Dream Salvage
--> Swans of Bryn Argoll

Strong pack 4 first picks overall swans is prob the strongest, so i took it.

Pack 1 pick 2:
Scar
Boggart Arsonists
Presence of Gond
Briarberry Cohort
Safehold Sentry
Consign to Dream
Put Away
Turn to Mist
Elvish Hexhunter
Smash to Smithereens
Smolder Initiate
--> Prison Term
Resplendent Mentor
Knollspine Dragon

So i took prison term over knollspine dragon here was i right to?

Pack 1 pick 3:
Cultbrand Cinder
Blistering Dieflyn
Morselhoarder
Wingrattle Scarecrow
Shield of the Oversoul
Merrow Wavebreakers
Scrapbasket
Strip Bare
Drowner Initiate
Scarscale Ritual
Tattermunge Witch
--> Jaws of Stone
Leechridden Swamp

So much better than anything else, doesnt really fit my colour scheme but its to early to commit.

Pack 1 pick 4:
Boggart Arsonists
Raven's Run Dragoon
Runes of the Deus
Medicine Runner
Kinscaer Harpoonist
Sinking Feeling
Inquisitor's Snare
Gloomwidow's Feast
Manaforge Cinder
Scuzzback Scrapper
Gnarled Effigy
--> Mistmeadow Witch

Thats more like it, encoraging sign.

Pack 1 pick 5:
Cinderhaze Wretch
Farhaven Elf
--> Scuttlemutt
Old Ghastbark
Merrow Wavebreakers
Elvish Hexhunter
Goldenglow Moth
Zealous Guardian
Loch Korrigan
Ember Gale
Roughshod Mentor

I love this guy clearly the pick here.

Pack 1 pick 6:
Raven's Run Dragoon
Chainbreaker
--> Consign to Dream
Niveous Wisps
Loamdragger Giant
Drowner Initiate
Pili-Pala
Bloodshed Fever
Illuminated Folio
Thoughtweft Gambit

Consign seems to be the best card here to me, how close are the dragoon and wisp though?

Pack 1 pick 7:
Runes of the Deus
Safehold Duo
Medicine Runner
Ghastly Discovery
--> Turn to Mist
Gravelgill Duo (FOIL)
Elsewhere Flask
Cerulean Wisps
Moonring Island

I considered the elsewhere flask for the jaws but decided it felt a bit jankie, the turn to mist was in both my potential colours so it god the nod over the two white guys.

Pack 1 pick 8:
Safehold Duo
Old Ghastbark
Ghastly Discovery
--> Cerulean Wisps
Strip Bare
Hungry Spriggan
Elsewhere Flask
Lockjaw Snapper

Hmm looking pack at this pic, I do not think the wisp was the right pick, prob the duo or flask, as the time i think i felt blue was more free flowing than white.

Pack 1 pick 9:
Cinderhaze Wretch
--> Wanderbrine Rootcutters
Zealous Guardian
Rite of Consumption
Bloodshed Fever
Loamdragger Giant
Dream Salvage

Obvious pick

Pack 1 pick 10:
--> Briarberry Cohort
Consign to Dream
Put Away
Turn to Mist
Smash to Smithereens
Resplendent Mentor

So yes blue is open, I already have a consign, so i think cohort is the right pick.

Pack 1 pick 11:
Blistering Dieflyn
Scrapbasket
Strip Bare
--> Drowner Initiate
Scarscale Ritual

No milling for you sir.

Pack 1 pick 12:
--> Kinscaer Harpoonist
Sinking Feeling
Manaforge Cinder
Scuzzback Scrapper

So my instinct was right about blue.

Pack 1 pick 13:
--> Merrow Wavebreakers
Zealous Guardian
Loch Korrigan

Oh yeah I'm so good (jammy)

Pack 1 pick 14:
--> Drowner Initiate
Bloodshed Fever

When it looks like your almost mono blue soo much more incentive to hate these.

Pack 1 pick 15:
--> Ghastly Discovery

Sometimes I get the impression with 4-3-2-2 that people do not think about there latter picks and just grab any random one, as this is not a 15th

------ SHM ------

Pack 2 pick 1:
Power of Fire
Disturbing Plot
Parapet Watchers
Watchwing Scarecrow
--> Ballynock Cohort
Barkshell Blessing
Foxfire Oak
Splitting Headache
Woeleecher
Prismwake Merrow
Crimson Wisps
Raking Canopy
Crowd of Cinders
River's Grasp
Puca's Mischief

No complaints about this pack, if i had took the elsewhere flaks earlier i could pick the power of fire and look to go ur, though im more than happy with a cohort.

Pack 2 pick 2:
--> Thistledown Duo
Fists of the Demigod
Helm of the Ghastlord
Gravelgill Duo
Rune-Cervin Rider
Ashenmoor Cohort
Thornwatch Scarecrow
Mine Excavation
Spell Syphon
Inescapable Brute
Kithkin Rabble
Slinking Giant
Wasp Lancer
Spiteful Visions

Now here is a diliema, thistledown duo vs wasplancer, Im heavy blue but also have some great white cards, as you may have guessed if you've read my previous drafts posted i went with caution and the duo.

Pack 2 pick 3:
Sickle Ripper
Torpor Dust
--> Somnomancer
Crabapple Cohort
Kithkin Shielddare
Prismwake Merrow
Inescapable Brute
Safewright Quest
Splitting Headache
Dawnglow Infusion
Hollowsage
River's Grasp
Tyrannize

Late rivers grasp but its not that good i should take it over sono mancer here right?

Pack 2 pick 4:
Gravelgill Duo
Torture
Fists of the Demigod
Rune-Cervin Rider
Juvenile Gloomwidow
Memory Sluice
Giantbaiting
Blazethorn Scarecrow
Emberstrike Duo
Spiteflame Witch
--> Flow of Ideas
Prismatic Omen

Clear pick, I think ive never cast this card only one of the cycle i have not, i play it enough but never draw it or get the mana

Pack 2 pick 5:
Sickle Ripper
--> Parapet Watchers
Blight Sickle
Thornwatch Scarecrow
Rustrazor Butcher
Safewright Quest
Aphotic Wisps
Woeleecher
Madblind Mountain
Umbral Mantle
Din of the Fireherd

Im thinking im both blue and white so i took the parapet watcher, came back to bite me in the ass in finals, cast din with 7 black creatures out ouch, that will teach me for trying to win on time.

Pack 2 pick 6:
Traitor's Roar (FOIL)
Nurturer Initiate
Gleeful Sabotage
Ashenmoor Cohort
Apothecary Initiate
Whimwader
Toil to Renown
Cursecatcher
--> Biting Tether
Cemetery Puca

This is wrong wrong wrong, i tell you, wronger than gary glitter.

Pack 2 pick 7:
Gravelgill Axeshark
--> Steel of the Godhead
Rattleblaze Scarecrow
Aphotic Wisps
Fate Transfer
Poison the Well
Guttural Response
Hollowsage
Deep-Slumber Titan

Always nice to have one of these, clear pick.

Pack 2 pick 8:
Helm of the Ghastlord
--> Thistledown Duo
Viridescent Wisps
Cinderbones
Mine Excavation
Blazethorn Scarecrow
Spell Syphon
Advice from the Fae

And this compliments my previous pick perfectly.

Pack 2 pick 9:
Disturbing Plot
Parapet Watchers
Splitting Headache
Woeleecher
Prismwake Merrow
--> River's Grasp
Puca's Mischief

Clearly the best card it this point its just a hate draft though.

Pack 2 pick 10:
--> Helm of the Ghastlord
Gravelgill Duo
Ashenmoor Cohort
Thornwatch Scarecrow
Mine Excavation
Spell Syphon

Pack 2 pick 11:
--> Kithkin Shielddare
Prismwake Merrow
Inescapable Brute
Safewright Quest
Hollowsage

Hopefully will not have to play this card but i think the pick had more to do with not wanting to play vs it.

Pack 2 pick 12:
Torture
Memory Sluice
--> Blazethorn Scarecrow
Emberstrike Duo

Hate drafting thoose aggresive red decks.

Pack 2 pick 13:
Thornwatch Scarecrow
--> Aphotic Wisps
Madblind Mountain

Alot of good black passed this pack time to hate me thinks.

Pack 2 pick 14:
Ashenmoor Cohort
--> Apothecary Initiate

Pack 2 pick 15:
--> Rattleblaze Scarecrow

------ EVE ------

Pack 3 pick 1:
Crumbling Ashes
Altar Golem
Inside Out
Beckon Apparition
Merrow Bonegnawer
Dream Thief
Soul Snuffers
Woodlurker Mimic
Duergar Assailant
Kithkin Spellduster
Noggle Bridgebreaker
Monstrify
Swirling Spriggan
Harvest Gwyllion
--> Snakeform

Seems good.

Pack 3 pick 2:
Fire at Will
Merrow Levitator
Sapling of Colfenor
Clout of the Dominus
Idle Thoughts
Wilderness Hypnotist
Double Cleave
Heartlash Cinder (FOIL)
--> Soul Reap
Quillspike
Scourge of the Nobilis
Shell Skulkin
Smoldering Butcher
Grazing Kelpie

So much better than anything else at this point.

Pack 3 pick 3:
Talara's Bane
Spitting Image
Battlegate Mimic
Rendclaw Trow
Stream Hopper
Heartlash Cinder
Springjack Shepherd
Cenn's Enlistment
Banishing Knack
--> Recumbent Bliss
Noggle Hedge-Mage (FOIL)
Razorfin Abolisher
Desecrator Hag

It seems you can count on eventide to bring you removal, at least from what Ive seen.

Pack 3 pick 4:
Clout of the Dominus
Talara's Bane (FOIL)
Double Cleave
Impelled Giant
Oona's Grace
Odious Trow
Scourge of the Nobilis
--> Wake Thrasher
Riverfall Mimic
Unwilling Recruit
Fang Skulkin
Suture Spirit

Rare draft.

Pack 3 pick 5:
--> Groundling Pouncer
Edge of the Divinity
Hobgoblin Dragoon
Kithkin Zealot
Trapjaw Kelpie
Nettle Sentinel
Hoof Skulkin
Shorecrasher Mimic
Tilling Treefolk
Talara's Bane
Hag Hedge-Mage

Pouncer seems good to me

Pack 3 pick 6:
--> Ballynock Trapper
Drain the Well
Smoldering Butcher
Gift of the Deity
Hotheaded Giant
Oona's Grace
Duskdale Wurm
Moonhold
Stream Hopper
Antler Skulkin

I do not think i have that much white should I have took the grace seems okay anyway.

Pack 3 pick 7:
Banishing Knack (FOIL)
Raven's Crime
Wilderness Hypnotist
--> Aerie Ouphes
Slippery Bogle
Invert the Skies
Dream Thief
Shell Skulkin
Beckon Apparition

I do not have that many cards for the banishing knack, and the aerie ouphes just owns my deck so I hated it.

Pack 3 pick 8:
Creakwood Ghoul
Merrow Levitator
Gift of the Deity
Fang Skulkin
--> Trapjaw Kelpie
Jawbone Skulkin
Tilling Treefolk
Nip Gwyllion

People keep playing this vs me, it seems bad.

Pack 3 pick 9:
Crumbling Ashes
Inside Out
Beckon Apparition
Merrow Bonegnawer
--> Dream Thief
Kithkin Spellduster
Swirling Spriggan

Me likes me likes me likes.

Pack 3 pick 10:
Merrow Levitator
Idle Thoughts
Wilderness Hypnotist
--> Double Cleave
Scourge of the Nobilis
Shell Skulkin

Its a combat trick, I could do with one even if im not going to play it nice to have the option.

Pack 3 pick 11:
Stream Hopper
Springjack Shepherd
--> Cenn's Enlistment
Banishing Knack
Razorfin Abolisher

Seems late

Pack 3 pick 12:
Double Cleave
--> Oona's Grace
Scourge of the Nobilis
Fang Skulkin

Even later

Pack 3 pick 13:
Kithkin Zealot
Trapjaw Kelpie
--> Shorecrasher Mimic

13th pick playable hurray

Pack 3 pick 14:
Stream Hopper
--> Antler Skulkin

Pack 3 pick 15:
--> Wilderness Hypnotist


The deck

1 Aphotic Wisp
1 Celeruan Wisp
1 Soul reap
1 Briaberry Cohort
1 Turn to mist
1 Shorecrasher Mimic
1 Groundling Pouncer
1 Sonomancer
1 Consign to dream
1 Oona's grace
1 Snakeform
1 Steel of the Godhead
1 Scuttlemutt
1 Dream Thief
2 Thistle Down Duo
1 Rivers Grasp
1 Kinscaer Harpoonist
1 Swans of Bryon Argoyll
1 Wanderbrine Woodcutter
1 Biting Tether
1 Merrow Wavebreakers
1 Flow of Idea's
12 Islands
5 Swamps

So why is my deck black and not white well, I was not convinced I could consistanly get the mana to play Prison Term with ideas and felt if i could not black could be better, so kept switching back and forth between, ub and uw in the deck builder when i ran out of time i had just decided white was better and was in the process of switching back to it.

So every game I boarded into this deck.


1 Celeruan Wisp
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 Briaberry Cohort
1 Turn to mist
1 Groundling Pouncer
1 Sonomancer
1 Consign to dream
1 Prison Term
1 Ballynock Cohort
1 Recumberlant Bliss
1 Oona's grace
1 Snakeform
1 Steel of the Godhead
1 Scuttlemutt
1 Dream Thief
2 Thistle Down Duo
1 Kinscaer Harpoonist
1 Swans of Bryon Argoyll
1 Wanderbrine Woodcutter
1 Biting Tether
1 Merrow Wavebreakers
1 Flow of Idea's
12 Islands
5 Plains

Sb cards of note not in either deck

1 wake thrasher (im not convinced its good in limited)
1 Parapet Watchers
1 Ballnock Trapper, should I have played this?
1 Cenns Enlistment

Round 1 i was paired vs a wg deck with oversoul of dusk, with shield of oversoul on i managed to get past it with a tethers silkbind faerie, with the help of a scuttlemut for the win, Game 2 I got stuck on 3 lands and he dropped some 5 mana 3/4 flyers that gives +2+0 to all other creatures his deck was bombie, game 3 I aerial curved him.

Round 2 paired vs bw deck, I beat down with aerial forces and kill him turn he plays midnight banshee, game 2 we race air vs ground the 1 hit i got in with a steeled duo before it was killed proves to be decisive.

Round 3 we are both lagging horribly he even more than me, he rips my hand apart with ravens crime game 1, and goes all the way with a Inkfathom infiltrator, Game 2 I decide im so far ahead on clock that im better to sit back and not risk anything and win on time, he blows me out with din of the fireherd with 7 black creatures in play, that'll teach me.

Thoughts appreciated.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stop hate drafting, it doesnt improve your deck and if the person beside you takes it your prob not gonna play him until finals, and your not even hate drafting good cards. if you took those 2 flasks you could have played your jaws and your flow would have been better
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pairings are now random so you could play the person first round so the need to hate draft has increased same irl has been that way for 6 months or so.

Alot of good drafters have indicated that running a jaws of stone of two flasks is bad and i did not have the flow at the time so how could i know.


Last edited by OldBear on Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anyway hate drafting is pretty bad unless the card is like firespout or blight.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its better than picking a card your prob not going to play if its a strong card, I was fine for playables in the end and all the cards I hatedrafted over a playable none of them would have made my deck anyway. You should try and get as close too 23 playables as possible.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes but sometimes is just better to take a card you might play over something your not going to play. you should have played your rivers grasp i think in this deck also
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WiCkEdWiZaRd



Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do 4322 such a waste of time.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

8-4 was not firing and alot of people who do 8-4 are deluded about there own ability and are losing money left right and centre. If I am that good at a format I will draft 8-4 but most the time i stick to 4-3-2-2 as im not.

Also anyone have any experince with wake thrasher, i have multiple 1900+ modo players on another site telling me it is a bomb and I should be playing it.
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TugaChampion



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should obv play wake trasher. I dont know how good it is in limited but I'm sure it's better than a vanilla 3/3 for 3.

I can't check right now, but isnt the trapper the 2/2 for 4 tapper? If yes you should obv play it.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I should i just got a reply on other forum I had misread the card i thought it only worked for creatures, if i knew it worked for land as well i would have been playing it in a flash lol.
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ACM
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course you should play the Wake Thrasher, I hardly believe you even ask about that.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a perceptional context error I suppose you've never misread a card, everyone has. The actual card seemed to powerful for me to accept so I toned it down to something that seemed more realistic.

An example of a percepional Context error

Keep Off The
The Grass

Spot the mistake you probably will not get it straight away, as you have already made an assumption in your brain of how the sign reads.
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Daffie999



Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

white/red would have been the better choice IMO. 2 Flasks, Jaws, Pilla, Power of Fire, Slinking Giant, Unwilling Recruit, Fire at Will, Din... you passed a lot.
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dv8r



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

an ok draft, I'll point out the mistakes you've made (aside from not playing trapper and thrasher, which I think you've taken enough criticism for, but are nonetheless mistakes)

p1p3
There are many ways to draft SSE, from this draft I think its clear that you either don't like to (or unable to) draft flexibly, this is fine, but you shouldn't waste early picks on cards like jaws of stone, which you won't play (unless you want to justify them as pseudo hate drafts).

I'm unsure what could have made you go red in this draft unless you got ram gangs 4th and 5th or something. So, although I would have taken jaws without a second thought, you should probably be taking cultbrand cinder or scarecrow. This is not a criticism, it's an analysis of drafting style.


p1p6
Whilst I agree with your pick, I think you massively underate illuminated folio. Without consign in the pack, I think that folio is defineately the correct pick here.


p1p7
Having taken jaws, you can't really not take flask here, assuming that p1p3 is a mispick, I can see turn to mist as being correct here.


p1p8
Spriggin is a clear signal that green might be open. Being a more flexible drafter, I would take it. For your wu deck, ghastback is the pick here, this format is dominated by 3/3s, ghastback trumps them, allowing you to swing through the air as wu tends to do. Again, I'm pretty surprised that you spend so long justifying jaws, but go out of your way to avoid taking flask from a mediocre pack.


p1p10
Consign is a more powerful card, the reason you take cohort is not because you already have a consign, but because of curve considerations. So right pick, wrong reasoning.


p1p11
This pick is wrong. Scrapbasket is a powerful card with auras, and you have a Scuttlemutt to help increase potential usefullness of cards such as steel of the godhead.


p1p13
Correct, but how lucky Razz


p2p1
This is a very rirsky pick, you haven't seen ANY white coming to you aside from prison term. I see your draft at this point being base blue splash white for witch. With this in mind, I think the clear pick is Power of Fire, consensus best common in the set, and at its best when paired with blue.


p2p2
Wasp Lancer for the reasons stated above.


p2p5
I would take mantle, watchers is perfectly fine pick here though.


p2p6
At least 4 of the 5 ppl passing to you can't draft.


p3p2
Correct pick, but the best card in the pack is not Reap, it's Quillspike


p3p6
Trapper is great even without white. Pick is correct.


p3p7
No love for dream thief?


p3p10
Whilst I don't think your deck is fast enough for idle thoughts to be an out and out bomb, it's still worth taking here.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replie dv8r most usefull by far and has swayed me too posting next draft on here. Funny how no one picked up on the wake thrasher till i posed the question and its the 2nd draft on here I've posted hes been in my sideboard. Thinking about it the jaws was probably a mistake as I'm not a fan of running cards like Jaws of elsewhere flasks but then again if blue or white was not coming and red was i would have abandoned it with out a second thought.
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