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how work Swans ability when pyroclasm is prevented



 
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Davidmira



Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:52 pm    Post subject: how work Swans ability when pyroclasm is prevented Reply with quote

My friend visited PT Kyoto and happened him "unpredictable" (for him) thing.When he played match with swans combo(my friend play RW Cruise) so his opp played pyroclasm,his opp had in game Swans of Bryn Argoll
.My friend sacrificed his burrenton forge tender to prevent it and his opp said that he still draw.When my friend asked judge about this situation .he said that it is replacement efect(i am not sure with this).plz can me sb explain me how it works?

I tried to find rule about this moment in official magic rules but i didnt able to find it there.Thx for every intelligent explanation.
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asamodious



Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 362

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swans says if a source would deal damage.

The damage is prevented, but it will still let his opponent draw his cards because it is (like the judge at the pro tour told your friend) a replacement effect. This means that instead of pyroclasm dealing damage he draws 2 cards.

The damage that would be dealt to swans is still prevented from swans, even if the forge-tender would prevent it to. So as the card says, swans draws its controller two cards because it still prevents the 2 damage to itself from pyroclasm even tho the forge tender is also doing the same thing.
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow... that is illlogic... Even if it's a replacement effect, Pyroclasm did NOT do any damage, so how come Swans could prevent a damage that never occured in the first place ?

Even if the judge ruling is right, it still proves that sometimes, magic is illogic.
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Pekken
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I tried to find rule about this moment in official magic rules but i didnt able to find it there.Thx for every intelligent explanation.


The answer lies in the rule 419.9a. If 2 replacement or prevention effects try to replace the same thing, the controller of the affected object (in this case Swans of Bryn Argoll) decides, which to apply.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burrenton Forge-Tender, Swans of Bryn Argoll & Pyroclasm.

Both Swans and Forge-Tender have a prevention effect and both try to prevent the damage to the Swans. The controller of the affected object decides which to apply first. In this case, he chose to use the Swans own ability, which also let him draw some cards.

Why do people find this such a weird ruling? Why would the prevention from Forge-Tender take precedence?


419.9a If two or more replacement or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected objectís controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply. If any of those effects are self-replacement effects (see rule 419.6d), one of them must be chosen. If not, but any of those effects would modify under whose control an object would come into play, one of them must be chosen. Otherwise, any of the applicable effects may be chosen. Once the chosen effect has been applied, this process is repeated (taking into account only replacement or prevention effects that would now be applicable) until there are no more left to apply. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 103.4).


I've also removed a few posts again, which was just people calling each other names. Could everyone just stop doing that?
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Zoom



Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good explanation! I've learned something today Very Happy
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Davidmira



Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx for all answears.now it is sure me. Very Happy
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Super_Prep



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lmfao Laughing
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