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U/W Aura Fish



 
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Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:31 pm    Post subject: U/W Aura Fish Reply with quote

I build decks out of boredom and I'm about to post all of my most recent projects. Here is one of my favorites.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [FUT] Nimbus Maze
4 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
4 [IA] Adarkar Wastes
4 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
1 [UNH] Plains
5 [UNH] Island

// Creatures
4 [US] Academy Researchers
3 [TSP] Looter il-Kor
3 [JU] Suntail Hawk
3 [AN] Flying Men
4 [JU] Cephalid Constable

// Spells
3 [TSP] Griffin Guide
4 [PLC] Auramancer's Guise
4 [FUT] Daybreak Coronet
2 [GP] Infiltrator's Magemark
4 [RAV] Remand
4 [CS] Rune Snag

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [PLC] Retether
SB: 4 [DIS] Azorius Herald
SB: 4 [AP] Dodecapod
SB: 3 [RAV] Three Dreams

It plays like traditional Fish, pumping out little guys while countering /delaying their threats. And by the time their threats hit the ground, I'm beating them in the face with a big update of one of those little guys.

The deck is suprisingly resilient. Disenchant hurts post board, as does Krosan Grip, but one resolved Retether will spoil their day, often winning in one turn as they wasted all of their counters/enchant hate and have little or no way to deal with all of them back at once. A big problem is faster aggro decks like MRA or MGA, but post-board Heralds coupled with a Daybreak Coronet help the matchup to what I've tested as around 50% pre-board, 80% post-board. And if all else fails, an evading Constable ruins ANY deck's day if it sticks.

Quote:
Some cards I've been toying with:

Mana Tithe - Great card, but dead late game. However, this deck usually shouldn't go into a late-game anyway.

Delay - Sometimes an extra counter is useful, but so far has been worth less than the extra threats I have to take out for it.

Spell Snare - Great card. Owns control's 2cc counters, aggro's 2cc creatures... almost NEVER a dead card. However, I just haven't found anything worth taking out for it. Maybe Rune Snag?

Pride of the Clouds - Can be big on his own. He's a "counter/kill or DIE" guy. However, the Looter engine is quite useful in digging for Auras and I don't need two 2cc creatures.

Guardian's Magemark - Instant Aura, but very situational. It's more common to pump one guy really big rather than play out a load of guys, and without Auramancer's Guise it's really not that useful.

Unstable Mutation - This one's a killer. I've actually been thinking about taking out the Infiltrator's Magemarks and maybe a Daybreak Coronet for this as most of my guys evade already, and I only really need one Coronet to win the game against aggro. Haven't tested it at all yet though, I'll probably do it after I finish posting.

Robe of Mirrors - The Robe is a toss-up. It makes my guy harder to kill, but after I put it on I can't gro him anymore. It may go sb versus burn and black-based removal. I need to test it more.


Feel free to tell me your feelings about this. Go ahead and flame, I know you're going to, and I don't really care. You make yourself look stupid, and generally your opinions are ruled out because of your immaturity.

For those who give actual input, I thank you for your time. Your help is invaluable.

Thank you,
Alandariel
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

auras are generally a terrible idea. It is the most efficient way a player can achieve card and tempo disadvantage at one stroke.

all your creatures are small. This means that you need many of them to deal lots of damage, and you need to cast them early. This means that the opponent in the meantime will have cast creatures like Troll Ascetic, Tarmogoyf, Call of the Herd once or twice, Sulfur Elemental, Mogg Fanatic, Watchwolf, Knight of the Holy Nimbus etc etc etc

basically, that deck won't ever race other aggro decks, and most of the best decks around have ways to kill your creatures. Auras with no creatures = gg. If you want to play this deck, you need to have Silhana Ledgewalker and Troll Ascetic in there, along with creatures with protection from disruptive colours like red and black.... and then I would in any case restrict the auras to the ones that are least likely to cause card disadvantage: Griffin Guide and Moldervine Cloak.
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Apos



Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 757

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-1 Daybreak Coronet +1 griffin guide
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Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vedrfolner wrote:
auras are generally a terrible idea. It is the most efficient way a player can achieve card and tempo disadvantage at one stroke.

all your creatures are small. This means that you need many of them to deal lots of damage, and you need to cast them early. This means that the opponent in the meantime will have cast creatures like Troll Ascetic, Tarmogoyf, Call of the Herd once or twice, Sulfur Elemental, Mogg Fanatic, Watchwolf, Knight of the Holy Nimbus etc etc etc

basically, that deck won't ever race other aggro decks, and most of the best decks around have ways to kill your creatures. Auras with no creatures = gg. If you want to play this deck, you need to have Silhana Ledgewalker and Troll Ascetic in there, along with creatures with protection from disruptive colours like red and black.... and then I would in any case restrict the auras to the ones that are least likely to cause card disadvantage: Griffin Guide and Moldervine Cloak.


Obviously you have never played this deck at all. No testing of it, and yet so much input.

I mean, yeah, thanks for taking the time out to post all of that. But honestly, it was time wasted. Do me a favor and read Daybreak Coronet. It BEATS aggro, period. If it resolves on a creature versus MGA, RDW, or any other non-black aggro deck... I just win, period. They scoop. I'm dealing enough damage to kill them, and gaining MORE than enough life to just freaking win. Sure, I'll have problems if they kill my creature before it resolves. But every deck has its weakness, right? And post-sideboard they can kill anything they want. Because once it's all in the grave, if ONE creature can hit the board and I can Retether on the same turn, it turns the whole game into me winning.

Thanks for trying, but please... think before you speak. This Aura deck was specifically designed to out-tempo all of the major decks, so you have zero idea what you're talking about at all. Test the deck before you open your mouth and you'll see what I mean.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daybreak Coronet is terrible. It needs one of your creatures to survive a turn with another enchantment on it, before you can play it. It is in other words a dead card in your hand until you have resolved a 3cc Griffin Guide, 3cc Magemark or 4cc Auramancer's Guise on one of your completely targetable 1/1's, and THEN that same player will allow you to resolve _another_ creature enchantment on the same creature? Are you serious?

The worst thing about your ignorant reply is that you actually believe you are God's gift to magic and that your deck is fantastic.

I am not saying that UW aggro is not Standard viable. I am not saying that your idea of fast, early evasive creatures may not be the basis of a good deck. I told you that I thought you should find a way to defend against faster aggro decks. I know they are faster because MGA plays 3/2, 3/3, 8/8 and 6/1 hasted creatures as early as you play 1/1 and 2/1 creatures. And they pump them for 4+ damage for the finish. Do you really believe that your deck does not have to defend vs MGA? Honestly?

Same with R/B and mono red burn decks. The problem here is not only that if you don't defend against them, they will deal lethal damage by turn 5-6 in most games, in addition they play cards such as Seal of Fire, Mogg Fanatic, Incinerate, Rift Bolt and sometimes Char - cards which kills your creatures easily, and often both before and/or after you have tried to enchant them.

BG rack and mono black discard decks are based on card advantage. It is very likely that they will be able to kill your creatures after you have enchanted them, since they run black creature removal like Terror, Slaughter Pact, Cruel Edict and Smallpox. They will empty your hand with discard quite early, since you play early creatures and try to enchant them, and then you go into topdeck mode with a high chance of topdecking land and auras - which are completely useless. Retether is your only good topdeck, and even though you hit it, it is likely that Smallpox and Cruel Edict or Damnation fixes the problem.

These decks I have mentioned here are played by the _really_ good players in major tournaments. UW weenie and UW aura weenie are not. Are you telling me that you are going to win Worlds or GP with the decks you have posted here? If not, your replies to my attempt at pointing out the weaknesses of your strategies are entirely out of sync with reality.
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Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally you say something almost worth reading.

In truth, this deck has zero problems with MGA. However, like you said, I do have trouble with black-based removal as well as hand disruption. Obviously this deck was not made for Worlds, or any other competitive tournament. However, the power, versatility, and raw speed of UW Fish (the deck I posted without Auras) is extremely underrated and I believe that a good enough player could pilot it to a win.

This deck was made to be fun, using Academy Researchers (which significantly increases your tempo by the way) or Cephalid Constable to win in a fun, unusual way. And it generally will annoy your opponents because, as you have said, Auras are considered "bad".

And still, after all of the time you've wasted, I almost guarantee you still haven't took the time to test this deck.

[/rant]
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tested a similar-looking deck which I made some time ago. Sure it was fun to play, but it was not tournament material. I have not tested your deck, and neither has anyone else on this forum... and noone ever will. The comments made here is based on experience with similar archetypes and strategies, not on extensive testing with a particular deck posted by some random guy on a forum. If you are lucky, you get to experience the exceptions.

But anyways:

"In truth, this deck has zero problems with MGA. However, like you said, I do have trouble with black-based removal as well as hand disruption. Obviously this deck was not made for Worlds, or any other competitive tournament."

Do you see the basic problem with that statement? That having zero problems with MGA, _and_ stating that the deck is not meant for competitive tournaments, are two sentences which should not appear that close to each other in any text?

(I have tested Academy Researches in a green-blue aggro deck I made recently, where I played 4 Moldervine Cloaks and 3 Verdant Embrace in the deck, along with 7 ways of having 3 mana turn 2. The occasions where I had both those wizards and an enchantment in hand to put on it by turn 2 were too few, so I took them out. And even when I did get them, having a 5/5 Verdant Force in play attacking in turn 3 wasn't doing much. It still died too easily.)
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