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ROB Aggro control


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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:48 am    Post subject: ROB Aggro control Reply with quote

I love this deck... I win most of my matches.. but some things is missing... I'd like you to improve it with CONSTRUCTIVE commentaries plz

I'll explain why the cards are there

here is the deck (maybe my mana curve is kind of off, I m not very good with that)

Lands

4 Blood Crypt
4 Goddless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Ghost Quarters (against Mouth of Ronom, Desert and such)
2 plains
3 moutains
3 swamps


Creatures

4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Dark Confidant
4 Sulfur Elemental
3 Rakdos Guildmage
3 Blood Knight
2 Giant Solifuge (or more) or 2 Tombstalker

Spells

4 Lightning Helix
4 Sudden Shock
4 Char
3 Sudden Death
3 Mortify

Sideboard (needs definitely improvement, I changed it a lot)

4 Aven Mindcensor (against DStorm)
4 Disenchant (against annoying stuff for that)
4 Leyline of the Void (against Dredge)
3 Temporal Isolation (against DStorm and some big annoying creatures)

*I'd like to put at least 2 Damnation in the deck, but I can't find a place

and I know Extirpate is good, but I think in that case, leyline is better (obv, if I draw it in my opening hand, or if I play it before my opp starts is "engine") -> maybe Tormod's crypt would be better !??![/u]
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DimeBagRiff



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno about you, but I, personally, don't like Blood Knight in this deck... doesn't really serve any purpose. If you'd look into maybe switching out the Knights out for 2 Damnations and 1 Wrath of God (because you're running white, plus sometimes you might have double white on the board).

Or you could cut them for either Magus of the Moon or Blood Moon (non-basics are runnin around with their heads cut off these days) would be a MUCH better choice. But you'd have to revamp your mana base, which your curve is topped at 4, and being only 2 of those in the deck your base should look something more like this:
4x Blood Crypt
3x Godless Shrine
2x Sacred Foundry
3x Ghost Quarter (up the count cuz tron is still out there)
5x Swamp
3x Mountain
2x Plains

As for SB choices:
4x Leyline of the Void (just good)
3x Disenchant (need not explain)
3x Temporal Isolation (see above)
3x Shadow of Doubt (costs one less, plus you get a card!)
2x Damnation/Wrath of God

Other than that, the deck seems good. Definatly not GREAT, but not bad at all... just good! Hope my 2 cents helps.
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Balthazar88
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you might need to trim your manabase. It seems quite fragile if you want to hit 1-drop,2-drop,3-drop in a row.

Also, consider the fact that you can be cougth with your pants down when your opponent drops a Blood Moon.
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Wurly



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In response to the Lion comment, he can't run Lion and Elemental in the same deck... Also note the bad synergy between Elemental and Mindsensor.

As for the deck, Sudden Deaths need to be cut due to the double black. Your deck is very light black and needs to be kept to a minimum in a 3 color deck. Ghost quarters have no place in this deck for the same reason.

Blood Knight has no place in this deck. Replace it with some more 1 drops/ another rakdos guildmage. Also, consider some land/hand destruction because this deck is not all that fast.

Changes to consider = something along the lines of...

-1 Scorched Rusalka
-3 Blood Knight
-3 Sudden Death
-1 Sudden Shock
-1 Mortify

+9 some combination of
Castigate, Rift Bolt, Shadow Guildmage, Red Magus, Rakdos Guildmage
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok first of all, thanks a lot everybody for you comments (for once on magic-league, they were constructive!!!)

I feel I need to explain some things though

Dimebagriff, you suggest a magus of the moon and blood moon and only ten basic lands !?!? wtf... so I can't cast Confidant, Helix, can't use my ghost quarters and screw my self ?!?! I know I run a lot of red but still dangerous... and 3 Ghost Quarters is too much...even with two, it seem a bit much...

____________________________________

tfunk1940, Obviously, Savannah Lions are not a good idea with 4 Sulfur Elemental (thanks for the anti-combo though.. I love that Wink )

Rift Bolt is NOT better than Sudden Shock. Split Second > everything except for Willbender... + I can choose my target... with Bolt, you don't choose your target often. and plz,don't cut creatures for spells... you cut creatures for creatures, and spells for spells.

so plz, think and know magic before posting, thank you very much
____________________________________________________

Balthazar88, I know for my mana base and Blood Moon... why you didn't you suggest something !?!? (that is what constructive IS)

________________________________________________

Wurly, obviously, I would replace Sulfur Elemental for Mindcensor against DStorm
_________________________________________________

I won't let a first one drop to 3, obviously (if you have better one drop to suggestion, suggest them)

I will NEVER drop a Sudden DEath (just too good.. Split Second is insane)

I will try without Blood Knight (but I like a creature that can't be Helixed, Faith Fetter'sed, Temporal Distortionned, that blocks Hierarch for ever, that get rid of 2/2 tokens, etc.

I like having sudden shock and tell my opp : I win and you can't do shit about it (unless he runs Willbender, obvioulsy)

and maybe 1 less mortify could be good I guess












Shadow of Doubt is useless.... if the DStorm is good, he is running Gigadrowse and he will play itand you are screwed anyways
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: ROB Aggro control Reply with quote

Magx wrote:
I love this deck... I win most of my matches.. but some things is missing... I'd like you to improve it with CONSTRUCTIVE commentaries plz

I'll explain why the cards are there

here is the deck (maybe my mana curve is kind of off, I m not very good with that)

Lands

4 Blood Crypt
4 Goddless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Ghost Quarters (against Mouth of Ronom, Desert and such)
2 plains
3 moutains
3 swamps


Creatures

4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Dark Confidant
4 Sulfur Elemental
3 Rakdos Guildmage
3 Blood Knight
2 Giant Solifuge (or more) or 2 Tombstalker

Spells

4 Lightning Helix
4 Sudden Shock
4 Char
3 Sudden Death
3 Mortify

Sideboard (needs definitely improvement, I changed it a lot)

4 Aven Mindcensor (against DStorm)
4 Disenchant (against annoying stuff for that)
4 Leyline of the Void (against Dredge)
3 Temporal Isolation (against DStorm and some big annoying creatures)

*I'd like to put at least 2 Damnation in the deck, but I can't find a place

and I know Extirpate is good, but I think in that case, leyline is better (obv, if I draw it in my opening hand, or if I play it before my opp starts is "engine") -> maybe Tormod's crypt would be better !??![/u]


Since you run Dark Confidant, lots of dual lands with damage, and lots of 3 and 4 cc spells, your deck needs to either speed up or add more lifegain than Helix. The strength of the deck, the increased card power and versatility because of the increased card base as you run 3 colours, is also its weakness.

The mana curve problem you have noticed is therefore not an issue of the amount of mana, but of colours (I assume, I have not played the deck). You may want to avoid double-colour cards like Blood Knight and Sudden Death for this reason. However, if you tune the deck so that the white and black are only splashed, and the vast majority of spells in the early game are red, then you can get away with it.

So my suggestions:

1 cc

4 Scorched Rusalka
4 Seal of Fire

2 cc

4 Rakos Guildmage
4 Dark Confidant
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Sudden Shock
4 Lightning Helix

3 cc

4 Sulfur Elemental
4 Stonecloaker (gy hate. picks up marauders/bob/solifuge/riftwatcher - 4/1 flyer w/elemental... nice)

4 cc

2 Giant Solifuge

Lands (22)

8 Mountain
2 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Godless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Graven Cairns
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

sb:

2 Giant Solifuge (control)
3 Disenchant (cop red etc)
2 Extirpate (additional gy hate, and vs control)
4 Aven Mindsensor (DS and myst.teach. hate)
4 Aven Riftwatcher (vs aggro)

This is a totally untested idea, inspired by your deck (so take it for what it is). I almost want to try it myself =).... yea I do!
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sc4rs



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 2/1 for 1 is WAY better than a 3/2 for 3 in agro. Savannah Lions should be maindeck, Sulfur Elemental should be sideboard. Two power one drops are STAPLES of agro, and Sulfur Elemental, though good against certain decks, is awful against others (against Mono Green Agro its just a worse Nessian Courser), which is the definition of a sideboard card. Plus, then you can board out the Lions for the Elementals, eliminating the anti-synergy.

Oh, and Rift Bolt is way better than Sudden Shock. If you need proof, go to coverage of any Pro Tour event and count the number of T2 decks running Rift Bolt and the number running Sudden Shock. I guarantee you the numbers will favor Rift Bolt. Pros know best. 3 damage > 2 damage for a deck that races. If you want damage that can't be dealt with, use Demonfire. Two damage for two mana isn't enough.

Lastly, Sudden Death should be boarded. It has double black mana (which you're not running heavily), and unlike a burn spell can't be aimed at someone's face. You would be served better to have either another good beater (perhaps Sedge Sliver), another good burn spell (Demonfire could easily go here), or another good one drop (Shadow Guildmage is strangely absent from your deck...)
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sc4rs wrote:
A 2/1 for 1 is WAY better than a 3/2 for 3 in agro. Savannah Lions should be maindeck, Sulfur Elemental should be sideboard. Two power one drops are STAPLES of agro, and Sulfur Elemental, though good against certain decks, is awful against others (against Mono Green Agro its just a worse Nessian Courser), which is the definition of a sideboard card. Plus, then you can board out the Lions for the Elementals, eliminating the anti-synergy.

Oh, and Rift Bolt is way better than Sudden Shock. If you need proof, go to coverage of any Pro Tour event and count the number of T2 decks running Rift Bolt and the number running Sudden Shock. I guarantee you the numbers will favor Rift Bolt. Pros know best. 3 damage > 2 damage for a deck that races. If you want damage that can't be dealt with, use Demonfire. Two damage for two mana isn't enough.

Lastly, Sudden Death should be boarded. It has double black mana (which you're not running heavily), and unlike a burn spell can't be aimed at someone's face. You would be served better to have either another good beater (perhaps Sedge Sliver), another good burn spell (Demonfire could easily go here), or another good one drop (Shadow Guildmage is strangely absent from your deck...)


I just disagree with almost about everything you say... even if it's 3 damage, you don'T always choose and that is really awful... and waiting one turn for your spell to be countered or wost playing it for 3 and BEING countered or answered really suck... plus it "steals" places (for the deck and for playing it) for Char

... Sudden Death is just insane... I almost never encountered a deck that I didn't need Sudden Death (and the double black mana ISN'T a problem). Obv, I can't aim it at a person's face and I got a lot of other spells that do that + bye tefeiri

I agree that Sedge Sliver could go in there... I just can't find a place. Demonfire is good unless I got no cards in hand.. wich doesn't happen against control..

Shadow Guilmage could be a good idea though.. but I take a lot of damage

As for for the Savannah Lions... wtf -> they will blocked, burned, whatever... I will not do anything with this. Sulfur Element is just insane... it's NOT a worst Nessian Courser.. it's Flash AND Split Second... my opp is tappled out (or not) with no creatures (wich happens a lot vs control) -> you just have a 3/2 in your face and you can't do shit about it (ok, he can bounce it or something.. but Rusalka's are there for one reason : if he repeals it, I sac it (I don't care), he takes one and he doesn't draw. And Sulfur Element as a bonus makes white creature weaker in thoughness

and as for MGA, if I got a Blood Knight, I almost win (almost = because of Timbermare) + strangely, I don't see a lot of MGA anymore)
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thedarkness



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magx, sc4rs' advice was fine. If you disagree with everything he said, which was all good advice, then you need to stop playing magic. Razz

Also, no one suggested that you run Blood Moon. The only person to mention it said your deck rolled to it BECAUSE it only had 10 basics.
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Balthazar88
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedarkness wrote:
Also, no one suggested that you run Blood Moon. The only person to mention it said your deck rolled to it BECAUSE it only had 10 basics.
With 10 basics he is on the line to inconsistens and suffer bad versus Blood Moon.

My cure? Drop a color, or if you insist on running 3 colors, add some painlands or the new ones from FS. That's my 2 cents...
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedarkness wrote:
Magx, sc4rs' advice was fine. If you disagree with everything he said, which was all good advice, then you need to stop playing magic. Razz

Also, no one suggested that you run Blood Moon. The only person to mention it said your deck rolled to it BECAUSE it only had 10 basics.


If you read correctly, I said "almost"... and tell me how sudden shock is inferior ? just because it deals 1 damage less ? I can't understand how people you cannot see that Split Second is fucking broken...

and for the blood moon part "Or you could cut them for either Magus of the Moon or Blood Moon" -> I call that suggesting a blood moon... I suggest you to know how to read... and instead of just saying " it was all good advice" (and you are allowed to think that) SAY WHY !!! CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM MEANS SAY WHY YOU ARE SAYING SOMETHING... what is not clear about that ?

oh and i m running disenchant in sideboard
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok.. so now after a lot of testing

the base of the deck is this (without the mana base,obviously)

4x Dark Confidant
4x Shadow Guilmage (or Rusalka's)
4x Sulfur Elemental
4x Rakdos Guildmage
4x other creatures (need help)

I want efficient creatures that are low casting cost but high power (I like Solifuge, Tombstalker as long as I don t reveal it with confidant.. it hurts) any other fatties suggestion ? (black or red) -> pact of the titan maybe ?!?! how many ? and I don'T want a suggestion of a creature that needs R to boost it or somethign like that ( I need my mana to cast Instants and Flash)

ok, nevermind Pact of the Titan...

3x Sudden Death
3X Sudden Shock
4x Char
3x Lightning Helix
2x Mortify
2x Damnation

those spells are very versatile and really useful.. I only have 2 Damnation because I got enough burn spells or spells that kills creatures

oh and what do you think about Soultether Golem ? do you think it'S a good idea ?
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I just need fatties in this deck... and I can't find one (the only "fattie" that works at the moment is Giant Soligue".. and I can't consider it as a fattie since it's weak thoughness)

I tried Akroma, Angel of Fury, too mana intensive
I tried Pact of the Titan, I m mana short to often to cast this
I thought of Rathi Dragon, but I didn't try it since I don't think it would work because of the sacing of two mountains

in black, I tried Tombstalker and even with Delve, it's too long to cast

Thundermare, Hunted Dragon (really as a finisher)maybe ? Shocked
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Wurly



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In reply to your comment, u say you obv replace the sulfur elementals to negate the bad synergy but you do realize you already have mortify/sudden death/(damnation if you're playing that which I think is a bad idea) which are bad in the ds matchup.

Split second is not nearly as great in T2 as it is in extended. For that reason, I do not like Sudden Shock nor Sudden Death nearly as much as you do. For that reason, I agree with others that they are sideboard material / should be replaced by rift bolt.

You say your mana is fine which is hard to believe because you are 3 color aggro going double black and red. If you stumble out of the gates, you're probably going to have trouble as you run very little disruption.
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wurly wrote:
In reply to your comment, u say you obv replace the sulfur elementals to negate the bad synergy but you do realize you already have mortify/sudden death/(damnation if you're playing that which I think is a bad idea) which are bad in the ds matchup.

Split second is not nearly as great in T2 as it is in extended. For that reason, I do not like Sudden Shock nor Sudden Death nearly as much as you do. For that reason, I agree with others that they are sideboard material / should be replaced by rift bolt.

You say your mana is fine which is hard to believe because you are 3 color aggro going double black and red. If you stumble out of the gates, you're probably going to have trouble as you run very little disruption.


Every anti-creature spell is bad agains a DStorm match up (except if you are running Temporal Isolation maindeck)

You are talking about the synergy of my deck and trying to completing your point with a DStorm match-up -> WTF

DStorm is NOT running rampant

And if you READ correctly, I said that I have trouble with my mana base... the only thing I said about my mana base and Sudden Death is that most of the time, I don't have any difficulties casting it

MAN, CAN'T YOU PEOPLE READ BEFORE POSTING ?!?!?! I mean, try to understand and get CORRECTLY what I am saying... two persons in a row misstate (if that is a word) what I said

and again : you say that Split Second isn'T as great in t2 as in extended, but you don't explain why... go read my post on constructive criticism
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