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Asylum Rants - 14 - Judges Are Lazy


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This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Magic-League Tournaments

Do you think there is enough minis?
Yes
46%
 46%  [ 15 ]
No
50%
 50%  [ 16 ]
Yes, but not of my favorite format
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 32

Author Message
Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject: Asylum Rants - 14 - Judges Are Lazy Reply with quote

I could post my policies....but personally what the point...
No one reads them anyway...

The Basic Facts
Its sad when their are 23 judges in #magic-league there a 4 minis running....3 from much earlier on in the day.
Of course this happened earlier.

Currently there are(as of when I write this):
18 j1s
1 j2
1 mini open
4 from having each started at least an hour and half ago running.

Whats wrong with this picture? Oh yea....
NOT ENOUGH MINIS

The problem
Now don't get me wrong this isn't the staff's fault. Nor is it the 4(total i think) j2s fault.
No, its really not even the j1's fault....no wait. Yes it is.

90% of all j1's host minis to do 2 things...
1. Earn team points..
2. Earn Personnal rating points.

Now whats the problem with this? Well its all fine and dandy if their running minis...but what if there not. What if they don't feel like playing? Or Enter in a mini?
What if their is a trial or master in progress?
Well then we discover the one tiny problem...no minis...

This isn't even the only problem. Judges have an unfair advantage over every other player when it comes to teams.
Other players must wait till a judge starts a mini...if their are no opening then your SOL. Judges? pssh they will start a mini, tell their entire team...and then 5 out of the 8 people in that mini are part of the team. And you wonder why 8 max minis fill up so fast...

The current policy on level 1 judges.

Currently the policy forces a j1 to host 4 minis a month...
thats it....And I'm sorry but when you have 26 j1s you can't be that loose on expectations...

The judges are lazy, they only care about themselves and its time that stops....

Now don't get me wrong...Some judges aren't like this at all...they hold HUGE no max tournys and don't even enter!
these judges such as our newly back j2 god: Lordhawk. Are truely good judges and deserve respect. And really no good judge will be effected by the following rules I am
suggesting...

Three Acts of Craze
The following is what I think should be done. It IMO would benefit the league, the players, and the good judges in the long run...

1. Level 1 Judges should be required to TC at least 12 minis a month.

2. Judges should be allowed to enter their minis, but should not get any points(team or personnal) from winning or placing finals etc in THEIR OWN mini.

3. The judge who hosts the most minis in a month should get a reward(cash prize?)

Now we just eliminated all bad judges who are...
-barely active
-only in it for themselves

This will inspire good judges to host more minis...but more importently it will inspire them to do somthing that right now they seem to think is ludicris...Host minis when they they are doing other things...

I have talked to soo many judges finding them either playing in another person's mini or just sitting and talking in #bored.
<Craze> Hey man, host a mini...
<Bad Judge> Meh, I just entered a mini...
<Craze> So? Wtf does that have to do with anything with you hosting a mini? You don't have to play in your mini...
<Bad judge> ...
<Bad judge> I'm going to bed soon anyway...

I swear to the holy lord that is the most used excuse...
judges have literally had that EXACT convo with me...where they JUST entered a mini, but are going to bed at the same time? Then they get off 2-3 hours later....
Yes, thats what I call ridiculous...

HOST MINIS WHEN TALKING TO FRIENDS....
HOST MINIS WHEN PLAYING IN OTHERS...
BUT DON'T NOT HOST A MINI JUST CAUSE YOUR NOT IN IT...

Ugh, I'm out...I'm done ranting..

-Craze

Note: Welcome Back Lordhawk!!!!
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:37 pm    Post subject: Jlax1 response Reply with quote

Quote:
ok, this point is fine, but i think you should take into consideration the fact that alot of the judges have full time jobs... i like the idea of more minis per month... maybe even 12 isnt overdoing it, but i like the 8-10 area better.


10 at least....12 was just a multiple of 4...so w/e
But 4 is way too low...and i state that same thing for 7-8 too.

Quote:
this i strongly disagree with. a point that you did not state in your article-rant thing is that a lot of team judges wont announce a mini in the #magic-league room until all of the team members are in it, and that is the main problem. also, if your "number 2 act of craze" is taken into effect, the number of judges would greatly decrease, because now, the motivation to become a judge has gone signifacantly down. i think that there should be some kind of punishment for a judge who is caught not announcing a mini as soon as it is up on the mainpage.


This is just it....the number of judges will decrease..but ask yourself...if judges quit just because they can't earn points for themselves did we really want them as judges anyway?

Motivation is importent, but being able to earn points from your own mini is both unfair and inspires abuse from bad judes(false reporting, flipping, and just getting pissed and quitting irc) the motivation would be the prize...

Also, its almost impossible to tell if a judge tells his team mates...he could tell them, then start the opening...then advertise it...but by the time people saw the ad and go to the site all his team members have joined. 8 max minis are perfect for this...if he can't earn points from winning it decreases the number of his team entering from 5 to 4 giving a least half of the possible entries to not be apart of his team.

This also pushes the idea of hosting minis when your doing other stuff...this way other judges can play...cause now you need to find a mini to play. So you cut a deal with another judge to both host minis for each other to join...and now instead of 1 mini being hosted we have 2. And thats an accomplishment.

Quote:
again, i agree with a reward of some sort, but a cash prize would be unlikely since, as we all know, this is a free league.


offer them for master prizes don't we?
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this has nothing to do with me becoming a judge, this has somthing to do with increasing the results for all judges...
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Dzy



Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craze, you're talking nonsense.. again. A lot of judges have school, work and a social life. A mini once a week can be a really difficult task already, I have that problem myself. Your second point is even more ridiculous. Judges are not only judges to serve you, also to be able to play in minis when you want to, at least if there are enough people that join. Earning no points is bullshit. The league is running on a low advertising budget, which is about enough to pay the server costs and the prizes for the masters. It is bullshit to give the judge who hosts the most tournament money, since everyone would start making minis and barely even care about them, just to up their count of minis... kinda like your post count. A lot of them, but no content what so ever.

This was my 2 cents.
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Craze, you're talking nonsense.. again. A lot of judges have school, work and a social life. A mini once a week can be a really difficult task already, I have that problem myself.


If you don't have enough time...don't be a judge...there are people who do have enough time..seriously if you have problems running 1 mini a week, then you shouldn't be a judge...

Quote:
Your second point is even more ridiculous. Judges are not only judges to serve you, also to be able to play in minis when you want to, at least if there are enough people that join. Earning no points is bullshit.


They don't serve me....nor anyone but themselves and they're teams...But you know what? if you couldn't enter your mini to gain points what would you do? You would host a mini and enter someone's elses..strike deals with other judges and in the process double the mini number...its only bullshit to you. Too Bad.

Quote:
The league is running on a low advertising budget, which is about enough to pay the server costs and the prizes for the masters. It is bullshit to give the judge who hosts the most tournament money, since everyone would start making minis and barely even care about them, just to up their count of minis... kinda like your post count. A lot of them, but no content what so ever.


Currently we have judges who leave irc in the middle of their minis just cause they lost...When did they care? And how could they care less...They would host more minis...thats the point. Giving rewards for hosting more minis would encourage judges to host more minis which itakes care of the problem in the first place...on Average A judge only really has to pair the minis...
Dealing with problems...well we have a channel for that, don't we? And even then...responsible judges would still handle problems which is all that will be left...anyhow if the first 2 acts are passed.

And if the cash prize isn't possible off them byes in masters or someother thing...its not hard.

I expect for selfish judges to complain cause it hurts them the most, so keep bitching and lets see if you follow under that catogory, huh?
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blake_C wrote:
2. Judges should be allowed to enter their minis, but should not get any points(team or personnal) from winning or placing finals etc in THEIR OWN mini.

I finally read it lol so yeah this is retarded, I would happily give up my J1 status if this ever came into effect.


I belive this covers it:

Quote:
if judges quit just because they can't earn points for themselves did we really want them as judges anyway?


heh...this is fun
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't get it do you...
if I got j1, I would follow this, but there still wouldn't be enough minis...1 judge shouldn't have to do everything...thats the point of multiple judges....this should apply to everyone...we don't need me being a j1, we need you being responsible. You and the rest of j1s
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are you not responsible? Oh I don't know lets see...

[Posted By: Blake_C
Quote:
Quote:
2. Judges should be allowed to enter their minis, but should not get any points(team or personnal) from winning or placing finals etc in THEIR OWN mini.


I finally read it lol so yeah this is retarded, I would happily give up my J1 status if this ever came into effect.


thats how your irresponsible...if you only host minis for yourself it means your not a very good judge, sure you pass act 1, but not act 2...
Its funny how many places your team would drop if Act 2 got passed. hmmm....wonder what this means

This has nothing to do with me being a j1, what part of that do you not get....I could give a rat's ass if I was a j1, but what I do care about is how current judges aka you, act.

And no ones jealous of you dude, quit dreaming.
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shdwpup wrote:
I didnt bother reading the thread because I dont really care for anything Craze has to say..


don't post then...
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blake_C wrote:
I'm not the one dreaming, you obviously would be the one dreaming with your terrible idea of how this woul dmake judges be more active.

Also you must be dreaming about this whole thing actually going into effect because you and I both know, it most likely will not.


you only thinks its a bad idea cause Act 2 would screw you and your team...you don't think outside of the box, and even worse you never try anything new...its time for new thinking and acting. Somthing like my idea...

I'll respond to all the rest of the posts tommorrow...so don't expect to get a immendiant response and you might wanna save your posts till I get back.
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Dzy



Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point 2 and 3 are contradictonary... You know judges would do less minis because of point 2, so you just hope they will do more again because of point 3. This is never doable, and you know it.

Why again would you be a judge if you couldn't even compete in your own minis. And don't say you can, because you might as well just play casual games if you don't play for rating or team points.

I don't say that judges don't care about the wants of players, I say that they also want to have actual benefits of spending time in being a judge. And that running a mini is only pairing is bullshit, since you have to answer questions in your mini, watch if the round is finished etc. You can't do anything else while holding a mini, unless you check irc every 2 minutes... and believe me, that excludes a lot of activities I do on my PC. So stop being a **** and admit that this is bullshit.
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Dev



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first thing to consider with this ludicrous idea, is that the judges here are simply players same as you. If they have nothing to gain from doing something they generally won't do it. I know I wouldn't make a mini if I wasn't even going to play in it, it wouldn't be fair to you guys because I would get distracted doing something else and forget about it. The thought that they shouldn't get anything for playing in them seems rediculous aswell, if they win they win. If you have a problem with a corrupt judge nico takes complaints.

But seriously, when you make requests like this try to picture yourself in the situation. Would you spend 3-4 hours just sitting here staring at the irc screen without playing and not being able to do anything else? Obviously not, unless you have some other sort of issues. I make minis when I want to play, and I generally win them. If I got no teampoints or rating for winning in them I'd probably still make them to play but I wouldn't be as inclined to make as many.

If you want to give an incentive run more minis, go ahead. I don't have a problem with that but to penalize a judge because he doesn't spend his entire life on irc playing magic is a pretty lame idea. I run minis pretty frequently, I answer rulings in j4u(correctly unlike a few other people) and have been here for quite a while. If all this garbage were inducted as rules I would probably resign.

Once again, the judges here are simply players like you. They aren't staff members whos job it is to keep everyone happy or such, they don't get anything out of it or anything like that just volunteers wanting to help out and to be so strict and force that much upon them you'd find yourself with quite a bit less minis.
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Dzy



Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't agree more.

*oops* I think i'm spamming a little to show off my cool new signature ;p
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Bejeezus



Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 1796
Location: Right Here

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally don't care, but I do have my opinions.

I agree with Craze on the idea of raising the minimum amount of minis that a J1 needs to run to keep his(or in some rare cases)/her status with the League.

But the idea about judges not having the ability to gain rating or team points in their own minis, to put it bluntly, is pure bullshit. Think about it, where's the fun in running tournaments if all you do is sit in IRC and watch for timers and answer random questions? Not much I imagine.

If the league could afford it, I do believe there should be some sort of prize for the most active judge, as it shows dedication and commitment, but this is just an option.

Also, In my opinion, Magic-League has a small problem with inactive judges, and I'm sure this can be fixed over time, but there are many J1s in #magic-league, that I have never seen run a mini, this may be because they barely meet the minimum requirements, and this is another reason I feel the league should raise the J1 mini requirements.

Though Craze's rant is a bit flawed, he does make a few points and outrageous proposals that need to be addressed within the league. And I think they will be when the time comes.
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mOrPHL1N9



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craze wrote:

on Average A judge only really has to pair the minis...


Yeah really, a judge only has 2 pair the minis... surelly craze dont know when u hold a mini and you are playing and N players have problems, and u cannot rule at the same time for all the people, and all the people msging u and annoying, no.. thats not a nightmare for the TC's maybe because that people dont hold a lot of minis, at least me, i hold minis, not so much, but if every 2 of 3 minis i hold i dont get people disturbing for rules that they should know, and lying etc... surelly i'll run more minis... i suppose all the other tc's think the same, with all that i would say to craze: give thanks to all unhonest players in that league and all scrubs, because they're the reason of low % of minis
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