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| How do you rate Friggorid? |
| 1 (Lowest) |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| 2 |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 3 |
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17% |
[ 8 ] |
| 4 |
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44% |
[ 20 ] |
| 5 (Highest) |
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33% |
[ 15 ] |
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| Total Votes : 45 |
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Angel-
Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 76
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 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: Friggorid Changes. |
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Ok, I have been skeptical about Friggorid when it first came out, but after I tried it out I see the deck is really fast and a very good contender.
So, let me make this quick. This is the decklist that won GP Charlotte.
Friggorid
Mike Krumb
Grand Prix Charlotte 2005
-= Land =- - 18
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Overgrown Tomb
-= Creatures =- - 22
2 Wonder
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Ichorid
4 Psychatog
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
-= Spells =- - 20
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Deep Analysis
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Chrome Mox
4 Tolarian Winds
-= Sideboard =-
4 Moment's Peace
4 Firemane Angel
4 Coffin Purge
3 Ray of Revelation
Now, I like the consistency in that decklist but in this metagame, it doesn't hurt to have some tech in the board. I especially like the tech that De Rosa brought to the top 8 of that GP. Namely, Compost in the SB for the mirror (Alex Lieberman's idea I believe) and a maindeck Golgari Thug (A good card to have when all your togs have ended up in the grave after all your dredging).
So, taking that into consideration I made the following changes.
-1 Overgrown Tomb
-1 Psychatog
-1 Zombie Infestation
-1 Chrome Mox
+1 Riftstone Portal
+1 Golgari Thug
+1 Darkblast
+1 Life from the Loam
and my decklists looks like this at the moment:
Friggorid
Ravel
Magic-League Tournaments
-= Land =- - 18
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
4 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Riftstone Portal
-= Creatures =- - 22
1 Golgari Thug
2 Wonder
3 Psychatog
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Ichorid
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
-= Spells =- - 20
1 Darkblast
1 Life from the Loam
3 Zombie Infestation
3 Chrome Mox
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Deep Analysis
4 Tolarian Winds
-= Sideboard =-
4 Moment's Peace
4 Compost
3 Coffin Purge
3 Ray of Revelation
1 Filth
Card Choices
Riftstone Portal
Why waste my time trying to snag a fetchland to get Overgrown Tomb or try to draw Tomb manually? I can simply just dredge Riftstone Portal into the grave and I can instantly hardcast Golgari Grave-Troll and my Life from the Loam.
Golgari Thug
This card was practically made for this deck. With all that dredging, more than half your deck will be in your grave by turn 5 and this card can let you snag those Togs that you "accidentally" discarded into your grave. Therefore, you can play that Tog and end the game quickly if you don't want to use your Ichirod beats.
Darkblast
What would Friggorid tech be if you didn't include tech to use for the mirror? Taking down those Ichis and also some annoying creatures when facing Boros Deck Wins. Heck this could also take down annoying Birds of Paradise to make those people who keep 1 land/creature mana hands pay for it.
Life from the Loam
This wasn't one of my initial changes to the deck, but after playing someone who did use this, I saw the potential. Let's say you're stuck on two land or 1 land and mox but luckily you have Riftstone in your grave. Dredge back Life from the Loam to get more mana or to snag more dredge opportunities with Cephalid Coliseum.
Sideboard Choices
Compost
Antonio De Rosa and Alex Lieberman ran this tech in their sideboard and after I saw the coverage of their match versus each other, I saw how well Compost worked. Think about it. Compost DOES work when your opponent discards black cards or even when he dredges and he discards a black card while dredging. Now that means any increase in dredging opportunities for you meaning you can grave most of your deck before your opponent or just refill your hand. Definitely needed for the mirror.
Filth
Another card that is needed for the mirror. What's better than having 4 unblockable Ichirods or an unblockable 20/20 tog before your opponent can get a chance to do anything? In a Friggorid mirror, there is nothing better.
Moment's Peace, Coffin Purge, Ray of Revelation
The 10 flashback cards. The good part is that these 10 flashbacks cards can be boarded versus a variety of decks. Moment's Peace can stop those annoying aggro decks while you beat your opponent to death with Ichirods or simply halt THEIR Ichirods while YOUR Ichirods get through.
Coffin Purge, like Moment's Peace, can be used in the mirror. Coffin Purge, however NEEDS to be boarded in the mirror while it's optional to board in Moment's Peace. Also, Coffin Purge can be boarded vs all those other metagame decks that likes to abuse their grave in ways such as the Life from the Loam engine (i.e. The CAL, Dredge-A-Tog, etc.).
And now, the last flashback card you SB in Ray of Revelation. This is mainly for any deck that abuses Enchantments. Now, believe it or not, but Slide is STILL a contender in this metagame and Slide (if played right can beat you). If they resolve Slide/Rift, they can repeatedly burn or slide your Ichis making them useless for you. Additionally, they can let you pump your Tog and then Slide it and take no damage to make your pumping a waste. This is where Ray comes in. Flashing it back to destroy that pesky Slide and Rift.
Side Notes
I don't really consider Affinity to be that big of deal when I play it with Friggorid, so I don't play artifact hate like Kataki. The only artifacts I really fear is Umezawa's Jitte, but most of the time I am able to get going with my beatdown before they can get their Jitte online. In the future it is possible that I will put Pithing Needles in my sideboard.
One card that you guys may see missing from this decklist that some pros are running now is Firemane Angel. Firemane Angels are used exclusively for life gain versus decks that seek to burn you, such as Boros Deck Wins. The reason I don't run it is that I feel Moment's Peace is just a better choice. Yes, Firemanes can snag you 1-4 life a turn but they are dead draws when you don't have a discarder outlet up. Also, you can use your Moment's Peace 4-8 times and versus Boros Deck Wins, you take more damage from their creatures then their burn. So, at a point I asked myself, "Would I rather gain 4 life and take 8 points of damage from their creatures this turn or gain 0 life and prevent that 8 damage this turn?," and I decided the 2nd choice was better.
Summary
In my opinion, Friggorid is good being consistent but a little tech can go a long way. However, after considering the metagame, I have decided to take out Darkblast from my list and put back my 4th Moxen in. Darkblast is okay, but vs the mirror, you'll only be taking down 1 Ichi out of a army of 2-3 Ichis most of the time so it won't be that effective. Also, versus Boros Deck Wins, you can only take down certain creatures with Darkblast. So, now my decklist has 4 Moxen again (Just how I like it).
Future Choice
For now, I am planning on a way to incorporate Pithing Needle in my SB. Needle can take down the 2 most annoying cards to your deck. Umezawa's Jitte and Withered Wretch. More than likely, Pithing Needle will be replacing Ray of Revelation. Although Slide and Rift can be annoying, most of the time you will be beating down before they can get them online to the point where they can stall you.
Well, that's enough of my babbling. What are your thoughts and decisions?
(I'm not even gonna say no flames because some kids are gonna flame either way.) |
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Tidus-
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 307
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Ray Is Needed in the sb because of CAL which wud ruin u if it plays confinment.
Now i think about it i think that only 1 wonder is nessary and a 4th zombie infestation shud be played.
Also i think u shud play 2 riftstone portals and another in the Sb
 hope that helps |
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Angel-
Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Tidus13 wrote: | Ray Is Needed in the sb because of CAL which wud ruin u if it plays confinment.
Now i think about it i think that only 1 wonder is nessary and a 4th zombie infestation shud be played.
Also i think u shud play 2 riftstone portals and another in the Sb
hope that helps |
1. Yea, CAL hurts if they get Solitary but it depends on how u play vs them. For instance, if you Needle their Seismic and then Coffin Purge their Life from the Loams, they will eventually have to get rid of the Confinement. Yes, Ray can hit certain good enchantments but when you think about the number of cards Ray is good against and the number of cards Needle is good against, you'll have to go with needle.
2. I was thinking of putting the Wonder count to 1 also, but I am still testing that out. However, I don't feel that the Infestation is so important that you have to use 4. You do have other discard outlets (Tolarian being my favorite actually).
3. Ok, 2 Riftstones in MD and 1 in SB is totally unnecessary. 1 is enough in the whole deck because more than likely you'll dredge the 1 Riftstone in the grave and anyway, the only cards you would want to play that are green are Life from the Loam and Grave-Troll (And MOST of the time there is no reason to play the Troll, unless you run out of threats).
4. Have a nice day |
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Stucco
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Riftstone Portal
Why waste my time trying to snag a fetchland to get Overgrown Tomb or try to draw Tomb manually? I can simply just dredge Riftstone Portal into the grave and I can instantly hardcast Golgari Grave-Troll and my Life from the Loam. |
| Quote: | | Ok, 2 Riftstones in MD and 1 in SB is totally unnecessary. 1 is enough in the whole deck because more than likely you'll dredge the 1 Riftstone in the grave and anyway, the only cards you would want to play that are green are Life from the Loam and Grave-Troll (And MOST of the time there is no reason to play the Troll, unless you run out of threats |
It seems that Riftsone is relatively important in your deck. However, you rely on dredging 1 into your graveyard? Should you get off to a slow start landwise, you are really going to count on dredging that 1 land into your graveyard. I don't know about your luck, but normally my 1-ofs are in the last 5-10 cards of my library. I'd definately go with 2. |
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Angel-
Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Stucco wrote: | | Quote: | Riftstone Portal
Why waste my time trying to snag a fetchland to get Overgrown Tomb or try to draw Tomb manually? I can simply just dredge Riftstone Portal into the grave and I can instantly hardcast Golgari Grave-Troll and my Life from the Loam. |
| Quote: | | Ok, 2 Riftstones in MD and 1 in SB is totally unnecessary. 1 is enough in the whole deck because more than likely you'll dredge the 1 Riftstone in the grave and anyway, the only cards you would want to play that are green are Life from the Loam and Grave-Troll (And MOST of the time there is no reason to play the Troll, unless you run out of threats |
It seems that Riftsone is relatively important in your deck. However, you rely on dredging 1 into your graveyard? Should you get off to a slow start landwise, you are really going to count on dredging that 1 land into your graveyard. I don't know about your luck, but normally my 1-ofs are in the last 5-10 cards of my library. I'd definately go with 2. |
Well, I do have 7 fetchlands to grab Overgrown Tomb which is like having 8 Tombs (Not manawise, draw-wise). Furthermore, I don't get off slow landwise as I don't really need the green mana that early. However, I will try -1 Fetchland and +1 Riftstone to see if it will help post board. Thanks for the input. |
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Royalty
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 73
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Mana Base (17):
4 Polluted Delta
4 Watery Grave
2 Swamp
4 Cephalid Coliseum
3 Riftsone Portal
4 fetches are enough, 3 riftstone portal make you sure you get one, its better than 1-2 portal and 1 tomb because if you dont get one and you have to play your troll , you'll cant, after playing several times with the deck, i realized that sometimes it helps to cast it (sometimes,like a match on 15 but it can still make you win agame)
2 Wonder is fine because V.S decks like the Aggro Rock or anything like that, getting your tog or ichorid blocked by birds... slow you a lot. having 2 make you sure you'll get 1 during game1 (until you get Filth in game2 if he plays black)
4 Zombie Infestation is required.
-1 Golgari Thug (lol whats the point of this?)
+1 Psychatog because tog is a beast
I would take out the darkblast MD, its not good vs a lot of decks, better there (to be replaced by 1 Ray of Revelation)
3 Chrome Mox, why not playing 4?
Because in my opinion, Life of the Loam is totally useless and do not have a place in the deck.
About your Sideboard, Moments Peace , good its needed.
2 Coffin Purge would be enough, but if you want 3.. thats your choice, Compost instead of Kataki is a good idea, no one really play affinity anymore.... (depends of your metagame)
Since you have a Ray of Revelation maindeck(if you do it)
-2 in SB
-1 Coffin Purge
+3 Darkblast in sb (make aggro matches easy)
Give it a try and tell me which works better!
- Royalty |
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Rebirth
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| 3 Purge and 4 Compost? EWWWWWwwwwwwWWWwwwwww. Also, with the rising popularity of this deck + decks like Gifts Rock, I'd suggest adding a Filth to the md. |
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Ggerg
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 487
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Basically, riftstone portal is awesome here. it let's you can a grave troll if you need to (wich shouldn't happen often) and best of all, lets you sideboard 4 kataki for your worst, and most popular, matchup which is affinity. for a great article in reguard to this deck, visit http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mf72 |
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Angel-
Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Royalty wrote: | Mana Base (17):
4 Polluted Delta
4 Watery Grave
2 Swamp
4 Cephalid Coliseum
3 Riftsone Portal
4 fetches are enough, 3 riftstone portal make you sure you get one, its better than 1-2 portal and 1 tomb because if you dont get one and you have to play your troll , you'll cant, after playing several times with the deck, i realized that sometimes it helps to cast it (sometimes,like a match on 15 but it can still make you win agame)
2 Wonder is fine because V.S decks like the Aggro Rock or anything like that, getting your tog or ichorid blocked by birds... slow you a lot. having 2 make you sure you'll get 1 during game1 (until you get Filth in game2 if he plays black)
4 Zombie Infestation is required.
-1 Golgari Thug (lol whats the point of this?)
+1 Psychatog because tog is a beast
I would take out the darkblast MD, its not good vs a lot of decks, better there (to be replaced by 1 Ray of Revelation)
3 Chrome Mox, why not playing 4?
Because in my opinion, Life of the Loam is totally useless and do not have a place in the deck.
About your Sideboard, Moments Peace , good its needed.
2 Coffin Purge would be enough, but if you want 3.. thats your choice, Compost instead of Kataki is a good idea, no one really play affinity anymore.... (depends of your metagame)
Since you have a Ray of Revelation maindeck(if you do it)
-2 in SB
-1 Coffin Purge
+3 Darkblast in sb (make aggro matches easy)
Give it a try and tell me which works better!
- Royalty |
1. I agree with one thing and it's about the fetches. However, did you say what's the point of Golgari Thug? Uh duh, to RETRIEVE those Psychatogs you graved. 4 Togs is a good idea, but if it's not in your opening hand and most Friggorid players know, you'll be dregding sometimes immediately after your first 7 cards so you won't always get the chance to draw those togs. But Golgari lets you get those Togs even if they are graved by the excessive dredging. De Rosa used Thug and it worked to his favor.
2. Ok, as I said I feel the 2 Riftstone are enough. If you notice, Friggorid dredges alot when a good players uses it right. Therefore, unless the 2 Riftstone are the bottom 2 cards of your deck, you'll get them graved.
3. I mentioned already (in my initial post) that I was taking the MD Darkblast and replacing it with the 4th Chrome Mox.
4. I am still trying to figure out what to take out for my 4th Zombie Infestation, but for now 3 Infestation are working fine.
5. Ray of Revelation is a metagame card. It is only really useful vs Slide, but sometimes you can win before Slide gets online. However, I may be putting Ray back in my SB replacing Needle.
6. Life is useless? Hmm...it's a dredge card (always good), it get snag you the Coliseum's you dredge, it can fix your mana (and increase your mana) if necessary, and most of the time, it gives you an easy Zombie token if you just want to discard the lands to Zombie Infestation. I am saying it's a keeper.
7. Darkblast is unnecessary when I think about it. Moment's Peace is what makes the aggro matches easier. Oh and Coffin Purge should be at 3-4 because graveyard control is good vs a VARIETY of decks in this metagame.
All in all, I think you probably changed my view of the mana base but that's it. Most of your suggestions weaken my build and would definately weaken my matchups.
| Rebirth wrote: | 3 Purge and 4 Compost? EWWWWWwwwwwwWWWwwwwww. Also, with the rising popularity of this deck + decks like Gifts Rock, I'd suggest adding a Filth to the md.
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I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you don't know WHY we include Compost. Compost in the mirror match and basically any deck running a good portion of black cards means more dredging for you. Then you say 3 Purge is bad? Um, that's good. For those decks running Loam engine, for the mirror, for recursion cards (Witness, Revive, Nostalgic Dreams) and for flashbacks opponent's are running, Purge is definately a plus.
It's funny you say there is a rising of Friggorid decks and Gifts Rock and you fail to notice BOTH Compost and Purge work well vs those decks. Yes, I agree Filth should be MD but I feel you're a little inexperienced about this deck. Read the last GP in Charlotte and check out the Friggorid matches (Especially the match between Antonio De Rosa vs Alex Lieberman).
| Ggerg wrote: | Basically, riftstone portal is awesome here. it let's you can a grave troll if you need to (wich shouldn't happen often) and best of all, lets you sideboard 4 kataki for your worst, and most popular, matchup which is affinity. for a great article in reguard to this deck, visit http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mf72
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Um, sorry to tell you but Affinity isn't as bad a matchups as you think. Through my testing, I have played Affinity (back when I still MD Darkblast) and it wasn't a bad matchup. This is a matchup where Zombie Infestation shines and most of the time they are blocking you alot with their flies to stop the Ichirod beatings and no to mention the flying Mr. Teeth. 4 Katakis aren't needed. |
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ZonGo
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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From my experience with this deck, I think Golgari Thug is a MUST.
Aff is like the worst match-up, so why worry sending all katakis to graveyard with dredge? Just go get Thug and then Cabal therapy to get kataki back. GG. |
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Rebirth
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you don't know WHY we include Compost. Compost in the mirror match and basically any deck running a good portion of black cards means more dredging for you. Then you say 3 Purge is bad? Um, that's good. For those decks running Loam engine, for the mirror, for recursion cards (Witness, Revive, Nostalgic Dreams) and for flashbacks opponent's are running, Purge is definately a plus.
It's funny you say there is a rising of Friggorid decks and Gifts Rock and you fail to notice BOTH Compost and Purge work well vs those decks. Yes, I agree Filth should be MD but I feel you're a little inexperienced about this deck. Read the last GP in Charlotte and check out the Friggorid matches (Especially the match between Antonio De Rosa vs Alex Lieberman). |
I wasn't suggesting that you not play Purge and Compost. I was suggesting that you should play more Purge than compost as it's much better in pretty much every match-up. |
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Ggerg
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 487
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah, so, basically, i'd have to stand by what i said about the affinity matchup, but on the whole it doesn't really matter either way, as the extended ptq season is done and over with, and that green chalise deck kinda screws this one and everything else ne way. plus, by the time we have any more big extended format tournaments, this deck (and likely its green counterpart) will be obsolete. |
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Kholdstare
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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i love playing against friggroids....because i main deck phantom centaur fro shizzle
but i have gotten steamrolled by this deck numerous times....i hate it 4 |
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Ronin_
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Infestation is much better than imp, you should play 4 and 3.
You should play 1 godless shrine md because of that fucking leyline, if your opponent manages to get it in your first turn, you got a really big problem, unless you play the Ray.
Filth isn't necessary, because the decks that run black can't block your flying creatures.
You should play 2 katakis in your SB, you may think that affinity isn't your worst matchup, but it's still a very difficult one. As somebody said before, running thug, you don't need to have kataki in your opening hand.
Considering those observations, the modifications may be:
-1 putrid imp/deep analysis
-1 bloodstained mire
-1 overgrown tomb
-1 moment's peace
+1 godless shrine
+1 riftstone portal
+1 zombie infestation
+2 kataki |
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Segismundo
Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| in my opinion 4 putrid imps are necesary , they discard , are 2/2 for 1 mana and black creatures to feed ichorids . |
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