Magic-League.com Forum Index Magic-League.com
Forums of Magic-League: Free Online tcg playing; casual or tournament play.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Sideboarding with Dredge



 
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Legacy (T1.5) Decks
Author Message
magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Sideboarding with Dredge Reply with quote

Just got this Dredge deck and I'm not quite sure the best way to sideboard yet. Here is the list (pretty standard except no LED's because it still runs decent and I don't want to put another $200 into it).

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
2 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise
4 [8E] City of Brass
4 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum

// Creatures
4 [TO] Putrid Imp
1 [RAV] Flame-Kin Zealot
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
4 [TO] Ichorid
3 [RAV] Golgari Thug
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll

// Spells
4 [TO] Breakthrough
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
2 [TSP] Dread Return
4 [OD] Careful Study
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
4 [DKA] Faithless Looting
1 [IA] Brainstorm

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [JU] Cabal Therapy
SB: 4 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [ISD] Ancient Grudge


My sideboard is not limited to those cards I also have an Iona, Shield of Emeria, and wouldn't mind buying some Leyline of Sanctity or Chain of Vapors if the need arises.

So...Lets say I win game 1 and I don't know what my opponent is sideboarding in for game 2. How many cards should I sb in? Sometimes I just leave my deck as is and sometimes I go
-1 Brainstorm
-1 Golgari Thug
-1 Ichorid
-1 Cabal Therapy (I feel like if I'm not on the play Cabal therapy isn't going to stop a Tormod's or Relic of Progenitus anyways)

+4 Nature's Claim (Pretty flexible at dealing with most graveyard hate except for Yixlid Jailer which I haven't seen anyone play)

Now lets say I lose game 2 and I see they are playing something like 3 Tormod's Crypt and 2 Relic of Progenitus. No Leyline of the Void and no Yixlid Jailer.

From my original deck I sb like this?
-1 Brainstorm
-1 Golgari Thug
-1 Ichorid
-1 Flame-kin Zealot (just going for Grave-Troll beats)
-1 Faithless Looting (no LED, Careful Study easier to cast)

+4 Ancient Gridge (to make them pop their hate early)
+1 Cabal Therapy (since I will be on the play)


OK now game 3 I'm on the play they are using 4 Leyline of the Void I sb like this?

-1 Brainstorm
-1 Cabal therapy
-1 Golgari Thug
-1 Ichorid

+4 Nature's Claim
Back to top
DonDiggy



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all your deck is no good, sorry m8. Listen to Dr. Edge from germany, we know what's best. You either play Quodlaser (No DR+Targets at all) or Flayer-Dredge (cuz Flayer is best DR Target by far). In both cases, you just have to have LED's. This is not Casualmagic, Eternal is expensive, dig that player. See it's not that Dredge has more consistency with LED, its the fact that especially in the Preboard-Matchup you just have to overrun your opponent. Thats what LED is good for, explosions out of nowhere. And if you cant explode, loot it out. I assume the missing LEDs are the reason for you to run 2 additional lands. Thats okay, but no Paradise Crap, no discussions, Tarnished Citadel . Dredge players take damage from lands and get a hard one from this. And Dredge players dont play braincrap, thats for canadian-douchebags. AND DREDGE PLAYERS RUN 4 THERAPYS. And well, your SB really needs some memory's journey. Its good flexible antihate vs Extraction, 1-2 copies work fine. And 2 CoV. Need Space? Cut some grudges. And play all Therapy MD.

But now to the boarding plans. Main directive: NEVER CUT THERAPY! See, its not the 10 Token outta nowhere, its Therapy that really destroys your opponent. I could write a whole book about how to play Therapy correctly in dredge.

G1 Won, no clue of opponents deck:
+2 Claim +1 Journey -1 Imp -1 Ichorid -1 Breakthrough

I'd never run 4 Claims postboard if they might end up being useless. Prefer to have a journey for additional consistensy and having an out on Extractions.

G2 lost, Opp plays 3 Crypt 2 Relic's
Opp is a dumbfuck. You either play at least 6 pieces of hate. Or nothing. However, since you should only have 2 grudges in your sb, its +2 Grudge + 3 Claim. 5 is a good number when being on the play. Your cuts are okay exept for Looting, cut one Breakthough for it. You dont want to blindly explode vs Gravehate anyways.

G3 with Leylines at opponent:
Never cut Therapys. Never. Cut 1 Imp since you won't need em on turn1.

See, in general there's an order to side things out in dredge. It works in most matchups. You have to do it in the right order to have the mechanics still work. You generally cut things in the following order:

1) 1 Ichorid
2) 1 Thug
3) 1 BT
4) 1 BS (if you run such crap)
5) 1 Imp
6) Led's (if you play a good list)

cya
Back to top
magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol thanks Dr. Edge. Really appreciate the feedback from a good dredge player. I was kind of on the fence about playing 3 or 4 Therapys I'll try maindecking

-1 Brainstorm
+1 Cabal Therapy

and

-2 Undiscovered Paradise
+2 Tarnished Citadel

I like your sideboard numbers, Memory's Journey sounds fun

Here is my list now:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
4 [8E] City of Brass
4 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
2 [OD] Tarnished Citadel

// Creatures
4 [TO] Putrid Imp
1 [RAV] Flame-Kin Zealot
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
4 [TO] Ichorid
3 [RAV] Golgari Thug
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll

// Spells
4 [TO] Breakthrough
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
2 [TSP] Dread Return
4 [OD] Careful Study
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
4 [DKA] Faithless Looting

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 4 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 [ISD] Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 [ISD] Memory's Journey
Back to top
BIRDYYY



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive known dredge since ravnica came out, after looking at the main legacy version. This is a realllyyy cheap deck to make, I doubt youll be putting much more money into it considering its such a cheap deck as it is.
Back to top
BIRDYYY



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And im always gona say this...Tolarian winds is the best dredge card, it causes full explosion by itself.
Back to top
DonDiggy



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolarian Winds is a good Card indeed. But the 3 reasons for not playing it are:

1) It's harder to play around a Daze, and gets caught by Snare. You dont want to prevent Snare from being a dead card against you.

2) A well played Ravenous Trap and youre damned.

3) Today's Legacy is too fast and too interactive. You really want CC1 Dredge-Enablers to be able to Therapy be4 running wild. And tbh, Breakthrough+Looting+Study are all > Winds.
Back to top
aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is an article you should read. This is pretty much heralded as the must read article for people looking to pilot dredge I am also a major fan of this article.


http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21777_The_Dark_Art_Of_Dredge_Fu.html
Back to top
magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks kind of old (no DKA). For the most part looks pretty decent, but I don't understand why he would SB out all 3 of his Ichorids vs the Dredge mirror since they are an easy way to kill your opponents bridges, make more zombies, and allow you to Dread Return your Elesh Norn easier. Also, he doesn't SB in any Nature's Claim so he would just lose to a Leyline of the Void =(
Back to top
Spyx



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 1188

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the main points of the article is that boarding in reactive answers to hate is statistically bad.

Quote:
Between my Day One and Day Two at GP Chicago and Max's winning one event and Top 8ing another, neither of us ever used a single reactive sideboard card to get ahead in any meaningful way, let alone to actually win a game.

Not even once.

That revelation floored me. Not only did we play all these rounds with these do-nothing cards taking up half our sideboards, but even worse, we were boarding them in!
Back to top
aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used matlab (a programing language that specializes in mathematical computation) to calculate how effective attempting to mulligan into leyline of the void is and here is what I got.

odds of having leyline

opener: 40%
after 1 mull: 35%
after 2 mull: 30%
after 3 mull: 25%
after 4 mull: 19%
after 5 mull: 13%
after 6 mull: .4%

odds of having leyline within

1 mulligans: 61%
2 mulligans: 73%
3 mulligans: 80%
4 mulligans: 83%
5 mulligans: 85%
6 mulligans:86.5%

and remember, in most cases dredge will win g1, so they will have to run these odds twice, and getting leyline of the void after 2 mulligans (ie you have 5 cards in hand, 4 after leyline hits play) is only 73% which is not consistent enough to do twice. (also remember all other hate can be hit by a turn 1 therapy) Therefore the article suggests that instead of reducing the power of your deck to play reactive cards, your better off just blowing them out when they dont have it, and attempting the dork squad strategy if they have to mull low to get it.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Legacy (T1.5) Decks All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All content on this page may not be reproduced without consent of Magic-League Directors.
Magic the Gathering is TM and copyright Wizards of the Coast, Inc, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved.


About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy