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Elf Ball Primer



 
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Elf Ball Primer Reply with quote

So I have been testing elf ball a little bit the past two days and found it to be incredibly fast and resilliant, the version I am using is a genesis wave/ eldrazi monument build. I feel this version has a much better game against aggro decks and control decks since aggro cannot push through your hord of blockers, and control cannot kill your creatures with mass removal, also the monument gives your creatures evasion which allows you to usually swing for lethal and connect your next turn.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
16 [MR] Forest (4)

// Creatures
3 [ROE] Joraga Treespeaker
2 [EVE] Regal Force
3 [WWK] Arbor Elf
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
4 [M10] Elvish Archdruid
3 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [10E] Llanowar Elves
3 [M11] Fauna Shaman
4 [CS] Boreal Druid
1 [SOM] Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
3 [MOR] Gilt-Leaf Archdruid

// Spells
4 [SOM] Genesis Wave
3 [ZEN] Eldrazi Monument

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ROE] Elvish Champion
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [NPH] Spellskite
SB: 2 [ZEN] Nissa's Chosen
SB: 3 [ZEN] Nissa Revane
SB: 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Right now I feel this list is not perfect yet. However since I am relatively new to this format I Am not sure exactly what I will be facing, and how I should tweek the md, and sb. Anyways, let me know what you guys come up with and maybe we can design a monster of a deck.
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Balaviaris



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Splash ranger of eos to get the combo (mentor of the meek could be cool here too but not tested), and maybe add an emrakul main.
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Balaviaris wrote:
Splash ranger of eos to get the combo (mentor of the meek could be cool here too but not tested), and maybe add an emrakul main.


Already testing ranger main, tweeking it around a bit, but I think I will make it work. mentor is also an interesting idea, I'll give it a go as well. He does have some draw backs though that might make him a bit of a problem.
1) not an elf
2) cost's 3 which means I would be playing him on the same turn as a lord or a bunch of creatures
3) his triggered ability costs mana, which limits the explosiveness of the deck
4) When compared to glit-leaf, he's cheaper, but at the cost of a game winning ability, and glit-leaf doesn't cost mana to draw cards

It will take some testing to see whether or not his casting cost will compensate for these disadvantages or not. I'll have to test him. Thanks for the suggestions!
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Mitchmachine



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cloudstone curio - elvish visionary?
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MitchMachine wrote:
cloudstone curio - elvish visionary?


I like the curio, and I have been testing it extensively, as for visionary, he's nice, but bouncing him a lot takes up a lot of mana which means that you waste a whole turn to generate CA, and you can't generate much if you dont have very many creatures. I've tested the white splash and it was okay...but the red splash is AMAZING! here is my new list.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [GP] Stomping Ground
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
8 [MI] Forest (2)

// Creatures
3 [ARB] Bloodbraid Elf
1 [ZEN] Nissa's Chosen
4 [M12] Llanowar Elves
4 [WWK] Arbor Elf
4 [M12] Elvish Archdruid
4 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
2 [MOR] Gilt-Leaf Archdruid
2 [EVE] Regal Force
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
3 [MOR] Heritage Druid

// Spells
3 [CH] Blood Moon
2 [ZEN] Nissa Revane
3 [SOM] Genesis Wave
3 [ZEN] Eldrazi Monument
2 [RAV] Cloudstone Curio

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CH] Blood Moon
SB: 1 [ZEN] Nissa Revane
SB: 3 [NPH] Spellskite
SB: 3 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 3 [8E] Choke
SB: 2 [MBS] Creeping Corrosion
SB: 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 1 [ZEN] Nissa's Chosen

Blood moon is a wrecking ball against a TON of decks, especially turn 2. Then against blue decks you board in chokes as well and their mana gets completely messed up. I just finished playing a game where my opponent quickly got his ratchet bomb + academy ruins combo going, and was supposed to shut me out...but I dropped a turn 2 blood moon and a turn 3 choke and he quit cause there was nothing he could do.
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Burton911



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as i would like this deck to work, playing it feels like the following scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc

You have to play tight the hole game, to even have a chance in the most matches, and then they just throw in a random removel spell and you lose.
Seriously WotC give us Glimpse back Sad

//edit: after looking at the decks agian i noticed that neither of those decks are combodecks, really.
My statement only stands for the comboversions, i havent played with the "Do fancy stuff" type of decks yet.
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kane2



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clearly NOT an elf BALL deck..
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burton911 wrote:
As much as i would like this deck to work, playing it feels like the following scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc

You have to play tight the hole game, to even have a chance in the most matches, and then they just throw in a random removel spell and you lose.
Seriously WotC give us Glimpse back Sad

//edit: after looking at the decks agian i noticed that neither of those decks are combodecks, really.
My statement only stands for the comboversions, i havent played with the "Do fancy stuff" type of decks yet.


further testing has confirmed this lol, yeah it's like you get an explosive hand and they just use their removal on you and your up sh*t creek without a paddle. So I cut all the cute stuff and tightened up the deck, then added sword of light and shadow to get you back in the game against removal spells and upped the land count because 16 just isn't enough when your week against creature removal. I also cut bloodbraid since most of the time he hits a mana dork which makes him not worth his cmc. Blood moons though are still there because they just win some matchups. I've also went up to the full 12 mana elves to increase consistency and it's been fantastic. Here is the list so far

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [GP] Stomping Ground
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
10 [9E] Forest (3)

// Creatures
4 [EVE] Regal Force
4 [WWK] Arbor Elf
4 [EVE] Nettle Sentinel
4 [M10] Elvish Archdruid
3 [MOR] Heritage Druid
4 [10E] Llanowar Elves
4 [CS] Boreal Druid
3 [LRW] Imperious Perfect
1 [ZEN] Nissa's Chosen

// Spells
3 [SOM] Genesis Wave
3 [ZEN] Eldrazi Monument
2 [ZEN] Nissa Revane
3 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Spellskite
SB: 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 3 [8E] Choke
SB: 3 [DK] Blood Moon
SB: 2 [MR] Damping Matrix
SB: 2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kane2 wrote:
clearly NOT an elf BALL deck..


it was an elf BALL deck, but that didn't work so well.
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[-a-L-e-]



Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aqualad33 wrote:
MitchMachine wrote:
cloudstone curio - elvish visionary?


I like the curio, and I have been testing it extensively, as for visionary, he's nice, but bouncing him a lot takes up a lot of mana which means that you waste a whole turn to generate CA, and you can't generate much if you dont have very many creatures.


I can't understand the hole thing you have write...why you say that "bouncing him a lot takes up a lot of mana"? curio+heritage druid+nettle sentinel+2 random cc1 elves=infinite green mana...so what's the matter? i've played elfball like one or two years ago in extended, in the deck there was 4 glimpse of nature and 4 curio and sometimes if you don't get glimpse you had to go with:

"ok, that's the loop: three mana with heritage+nettle+arbor elf, i play llanowar elves bouncing arbor elf, untap nettle, 2 mana left...i play arbor elf, 1 mana left, with curio's ability on stack i tap arbor elf, llanowar elves and nettle sentinel for three more mana, bouncing llanowar elves and so on. Everytime i get one mana. I do that one million of times, then i do the same loop but with heritage druid+nettle sentinel+elvish visionary+llanowar elves, getting zero mana and one card each time. I do that one time...again...again...again....again...etc" Then i would like to play manamorphose+grapeshot, but today probably there better options like ermakul or just go with "i play almost my whole deck, eldrazi monument, next turn you're dead if you don't have a solution to the monument+some sweeper or hallowed burial". But thinking twice about that probably manamorphose+grapeshot it's just better because they let you win the same turn you draw your deck and if you draw them when you're not comboing they actually can do something (not like eldrazi monument or emrakul)
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[-a-L-e-] wrote:
aqualad33 wrote:
MitchMachine wrote:
cloudstone curio - elvish visionary?


I like the curio, and I have been testing it extensively, as for visionary, he's nice, but bouncing him a lot takes up a lot of mana which means that you waste a whole turn to generate CA, and you can't generate much if you dont have very many creatures.


I can't understand the hole thing you have write...why you say that "bouncing him a lot takes up a lot of mana"? curio+heritage druid+nettle sentinel+2 random cc1 elves=infinite green mana...so what's the matter? i've played elfball like one or two years ago in extended, in the deck there was 4 glimpse of nature and 4 curio and sometimes if you don't get glimpse you had to go with:

"ok, that's the loop: three mana with heritage+nettle+arbor elf, i play llanowar elves bouncing arbor elf, untap nettle, 2 mana left...i play arbor elf, 1 mana left, with curio's ability on stack i tap arbor elf, llanowar elves and nettle sentinel for three more mana, bouncing llanowar elves and so on. Everytime i get one mana. I do that one million of times, then i do the same loop but with heritage druid+nettle sentinel+elvish visionary+llanowar elves, getting zero mana and one card each time. I do that one time...again...again...again....again...etc" Then i would like to play manamorphose+grapeshot, but today probably there better options like ermakul or just go with "i play almost my whole deck, eldrazi monument, next turn you're dead if you don't have a solution to the monument+some sweeper or hallowed burial". But thinking twice about that probably manamorphose+grapeshot it's just better because they let you win the same turn you draw your deck and if you draw them when you're not comboing they actually can do something (not like eldrazi monument or emrakul)


I understand the combo, but that combo gets disrupted by a great deal of removal quite easily and removal has gotten incredibly efficient recently. So usually, you do not assemble the combo.

I suppose that I should have said that it is an inefficient draw engine when you do not have the combo out. Also what do you cut to put it into the deck? taking out waves, monuments or regal force increases your chances of stalling out at high mana, taking out a mana elf decreases your excelleration consistency, taking out lands makes your very voulnerable to creature hate, and makes it hard for you to recover, taking out nissa makes you less consistent with monument, and takes away a lot of the lifegain that helps against aggro mu's. Yes my deck does not go infinite, however it is much more consistent now.
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[-a-L-e-]



Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aqualad33 wrote:

I understand the combo, but that combo gets disrupted by a great deal of removal quite easily and removal has gotten incredibly efficient recently. So usually, you do not assemble the combo.


Well, when i was playing there was landfall boros and zoo out there (so: bolt, helix, pte in both decks) and actually i remember having a good mu against them...now we've lost glimpse of nature but the number of removal spell of my opponent isn't changed (except a 5c zoo can have snapcaster), i think that isn't that difficult to combo with curio.

aqualad33 wrote:
I suppose that I should have said that it is an inefficient draw engine when you do not have the combo out. Also what do you cut to put it into the deck?


Well, it's stupid to talk about what i would cut because a list with curio and a list with the plan "genesis wave/eldrazi monument/nissa" are pretty different...of course you can generate some CA with the cc5 druid but you're in fact an aggro deck, while if you're playing curio you're a combo deck that half of the time goes with the aggro plan. For example, that was the list i've played long time ago:

Creatures [28]
1 Essence Warden
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Boreal Druid
3 Elvish Archdruid
4 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel

Instants [6]
2 Manamorphose
4 Summoner's Pact

Sorceries [5]
1 Grapeshot
4 Glimpse of Nature

Artifacts [4]
4 Cloudstone Curio

Lands [17]
1 Pendelhaven
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
5 Forest

Sideboard [15]
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Nissa Revane
3 Ranger of Eos
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Viridian Shaman

I would do somethin' like...

-4 glimpse of nature (banned :/ )
-1 manamorphose (dunno why i was playing two of those, lol. actually with only one of those you have just to not keep hands with morphose in hand against decks with discard spell...if you think you can't get the stomping ground)
-1 viridian shaman (in those times there was jitte out there, now md shaman is useless)
+1 regal force +1 elvish archdruid +3 chord of calling.

In the sb:
1) -3 ghost quarter +3 choke (at those time the ub tier1 was DDT, now it's delver-confidant-snapcaster etc xD)
2) -3 jitte +1 viridian shaman +1 burrenton +1 magus of the moon
3) -2 nissa +??? somethin that can play the role of a plan B, maybe eldrazi monument...

Of course that post is talkin' about the combo version of the deck, i won't say a word about the more aggro version because i didn't now that version enough to talk.
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I ran into a guy the other day who was also working on an elf list, he however found what I believe to be the best enabler of all, Intruder alarm! When he played it I had to go double check to make sure that it was legal in modern considering that it is banned in legacy. Fortuitously, I was able to combo out before he did but barely (I was working on a cloudstone combo version at the time) First of all, it combo's VERY well with perfect creating a psudo splinter twin combo, second it makes it so that a great deal of the time it turns genesis wave into an instant win instead of an "I win next turn" (basically you untap your creatures with a big boost from your lords/ezuri pumps using your mana from all the intruder alarm triggers/evasion from monument).


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [DIS] Breeding Pool
10 [9E] Forest (1)

// Creatures
3 [MOR] Gilt-Leaf Archdruid
4 [WWK] Arbor Elf
4 [CS] Boreal Druid
4 [A] Llanowar Elves
4 [ROE] Joraga Treespeaker
4 [MOR] Heritage Druid
1 [SOM] Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 [M12] Elvish Archdruid
4 [DPA] Imperious Perfect
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
3 [SOM] Genesis Wave
2 [ZEN] Eldrazi Monument
4 [8E] Intruder Alarm

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [SOM] Ezuri, Renegade Leader
SB: 1 [ZEN] Eldrazi Monument
SB: 3 [8E] Choke
SB: 3 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 3 [NPH] Spellskite
SB: 3 [MR] Damping Matrix
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