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Concerted Effort and losing abilities at instant speed



 
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FiReBLT



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll need a leonin shikari to be able to equip at instant speed, but other than that, it works
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the rule that applies to your question:

Quote:
603.4. A triggered ability may read “When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect].” When the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it resolves. If the condition isn’t true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does nothing. Note that this mirrors the check for legal targets. This rule is referred to as the “intervening ‘if’ clause” rule. (The word “if” has only its normal English meaning anywhere else in the text of a card; this rule only applies to an “if” that immediately follows a trigger condition.)
Example: Felidar Sovereign reads, “At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 40 or more life, you win the game.” Its controller’s life total is checked as that player’s upkeep begins. If that player has 39 or less life, the ability doesn’t trigger at all. If that player has 40 or more life, the ability triggers and goes on the stack. As the ability resolves, that player’s life total is checked again. If that player has 39 or less life at this time, the ability is removed from the stack and has no effect. If that player has 40 or more life at this time, the ability resolves and that player wins the game.


So the answer to your question is yes. If you move the equipment before the Concerted Effort trigger resolves, none of your cats would get double strike.

And btw fireblt, you can use the Brass Squire's ability at instant speed which will move the equipment when it resolves so it is still "instant speed". Same with paying the 2 black mana to move Cranial Plating.
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FiReBLT



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raaaah I need to read cards properly, eh? Thanks for the clarification!
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. "at the beginning of your upkeep" triggers all go on the stack before you can play any spells or abilites. So at the beginning of your upkeep only the concerted effort will go on the stack because your golden cub was already equipped at the beginning of your turn and your kemba was not.

If you mouse over the untap and upkeep phases in mws it will explain to you.
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kemba, Kha Regent's ability triggers when the upkeep begins. It will trigger regardless of whether it has any equipment attached to it or not. If there's no equipment attached to it when it resolves, the ability simply won't do anything.
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Conkisstador



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@magicman85, you are thinking of an 'intervening if clause' where the triggering condition needs to be present and the resolution condition needs to be true...

Kemba is not one of these examples. Kemba triggers every upkeep and simply does nothing if there's no equipment on it upon resolution.

In this scenario with multiple triggers on the stack, you can order the concerted effort to resolve first, granting all of your creatures double strike. Before Kemba's ability resolves you can Brass Squire the equipment over to the Regeant and still get the 2/2 token.
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you are right Conkisstador. Thanks for the correction.

Quote:
603.2b When a phase or step begins, all abilities that trigger “at the beginning of” that phase or step trigger.


So you can give all your cats double strike and then make the token, but you can't make the token and then give all your cats double strike because the Concerted Effort has the 'intervening if' clause and the Kemba doesn't.
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Clariax
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

magicman85 wrote:

So you can give all your cats double strike and then make the token, but you can't make the token and then give all your cats double strike because the Concerted Effort has the 'intervening if' clause and the Kemba doesn't.


Neither triggered ability has an intervening 'if' clause. Both simply trigger when the upkeep begins and check on resolution to see what effect they have.
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah i got thrown off because the concerted effort says if but its still an "at the beginning of your upkeep trigger. So it still goes on the stack even if none of your creatures has one of those abilities.

Thx clarax.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of what is equipped with what, both Kemba, Kha Regent and Concerted Effort will trigger and go on the stack at the beginning of the upkeep.

And it doesn't really matter how you stack the triggers. You just have to make sure that when the Concerted Effort trigger resolves Raksha Golden Cub is equipped and that when the Kemba trigger resolves, Kemba is equipped.

If the Golden Cub is already equipped and your only way of moving the equipment is a Brass Squire, then the only way to do it is let the Concerted Effort trigger resolve first, then move the equipment with the Squire to Kemba and then let the Kemba trigger resolve.
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