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What is "bad" for magic



 
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Me_and_I



Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:11 am    Post subject: What is "bad" for magic Reply with quote

So i was thinking about Baneslayer Angel and how I dont own 4,haha.This led to the thought is Baneslayer good or bad for magic?
Now what i wanna know from you guys,what do you think is bad for magic, like planeswalkers,mythics,Baneslayer or any other idea you have
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Sleeyp



Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baneslayer and all mythics whose power level is significantly higher than any rare in their corresponding set are bad for magic, end of story. Anything you hear otherwise is just marketing to sell more packs, which has worked very well. They have sold way more boxes since mythics were introduced because it's financially more responsible to buy boxes for 80 bucks with a decent chance at an 80 dollar mythic or 150 dollar foil mythic than buying a single mythic card.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sleeyp wrote:
Baneslayer and all mythics whose power level is significantly higher than any rare in their corresponding set are bad for magic, end of story. Anything you hear otherwise is just marketing to sell more packs, which has worked very well. They have sold way more boxes since mythics were introduced because it's financially more responsible to buy boxes for 80 bucks with a decent chance at an 80 dollar mythic or 150 dollar foil mythic than buying a single mythic card.


wizards has also printed less than they used to, and thats why boxes dont cost 80 dollars anymore they cost 100+ depending on the set.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This all depends on what you think is good and bad for magic. What I am intrested in is making the game more skill intesive so to me baneslayer is bad. But cards like Jace TMS and Gideon would be good.

Cards like bloodbraid elf, would also fall into the bad, as would anything with a random effect that can swing from absurd to insignificant. So tresure hunt falls into this category, basically cards that make it about whats ontop of your deck rather than how you use the cards you have.

Playing to topdeck is fine, but random swingy cards are not.
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kumagmd



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shuffling your deck is random. are you suggesting we don't shuffle decks anymore? =)
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly there has to be a random element but i think the game should be looking to reduce it rather than promote it. Wizards dont agree with me but thats life.
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mythics are bad for the game, hands down.

I even sent a letter to WOTC recently by snail mail stating this fact.

The only formats I am going to play IRL until "the mythic problem" is fixed are limited and EDH. So there you go, mythics have basically driven me out of the game. It isn't a question of money. I have the money, I simply refuse to spend $200 plus for 4 pieces of card board that will rotate out of the format or be less useful due to metagame shifts in less than a year. I'd rather spend the money on ANYTHING or just save it.

Planeswalkers are also highly questionable, especially now that they are starting to be efficient game enders (Gideon).

It has been many years since WOTC made the conscious decision to ensure that the top decks are at least 50% rares. Looks like the next step will be 50% mythics and 50% rares.
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trotsky1 wrote:
This all depends on what you think is good and bad for magic. What I am intrested in is making the game more skill intesive so to me baneslayer is bad. But cards like Jace TMS and Gideon would be good.

Cards like bloodbraid elf, would also fall into the bad, as would anything with a random effect that can swing from absurd to insignificant. So tresure hunt falls into this category, basically cards that make it about whats ontop of your deck rather than how you use the cards you have.

Playing to topdeck is fine, but random swingy cards are not.


Unskilled scrubs love Baneslayer and what it represents. It's a cool looking super expensive card that wins the game for you. Kids love that. "Play Baneslayer, win." No thought, no math, no skill, just cast it and swing. If they kill it, go to plan B, if they don't, you win. GG.

Gaming in general has been going down hill for years. Furthermore, there are definitely not as many levels of skill in Magic as I used to think there were when I was younger. Decks like Jund literally play themselves with only minimal interaction. The perfect deck for a WoW player, the game that plays itself.
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kumagmd



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This so-called "death of magic" is what makes the game available for... er... "less-intellectually gifted" people to play the game. All you have to do is netdeck, then buy the most expensive cards, and you might win. However, it's still HOW you play the game. Random stuff is still good, and the un-randomizing is dependent on the style of play (such as Divining Top, Ponder, etc in control compared to OMG KICKASS CRITTERS in Zoo).

The only thing that's really bad for the game is that there isn't any innovation left - one just has to copy decks to win. There aren't any points for style.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is still possible, to win with your own decks, i did it all the time back when i played ml (i know thats alot easier than irl but hey its still possible).

Fact is though that involved constant testing pretty much every day, something i dont have the inclantion to do anymore.

This is the pro's and internets fault. Fact is some people are gonna be better at deck building when others and when you have acess to decks built by the best at the click of the button this really stiffles creative deck building. However that is to be expected at tournament level i guess.

I mean I struggle to rattle of three wins in a row now in constructed, as I sparsely test, but still tend to play my own decks. Well it was a bit much to expect i could just stop testing and still play my own decks to sucess. Why I play almost exculsivly draft these days. But the internet and pros have made it really hard for anyone, to have any sucess with a creation of there own, infact i think its getting harder. However when you do suceed this gives you even more points for style.
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Sprouts



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, Magic started getting bad when they started switching from the art related approach (in artworks and all other aspects), to the "lets sell more approach". Its quite sad for me because i often look at old cards and see how beautiful they were. Cards like Lake of the Dead, Dakkon Blackblade, and so many others from these early sets. Even though i was just a small kid, i could still see the beauty in those cards back then. Things started shifting with Tempest, which still had great cards but was already marking the change (coincidentely, its when that Mark Rosewater entered wotc, go figure...). Today i sincerely get disgusted by some mechanics (clash,cascade really?) not to mention artworks (i dont need to name a single card, in fact, i would be lucky if i found one that looked good). The introduction of mythics is really the last drop for me. I really dont mind planeswalkers as a principle (though i would prefer they didnt exist) but the power level is just pathetic, not to mention their appearence (look at Jace TMC ffs, he looks like a fucking X-Man). The only thing that kept me playing for so long with those awfuls creations, was some twisted image i still had inside of a game i loved, still do in some ways, but that i cant keep on playing the way it is.

ps: Trotsky1 I would like a word with you, enter the chat sometime if possible and let me know when.
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