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Let's define the current environment


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CloaknDagger



Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:59 am    Post subject: Let's define the current environment Reply with quote

So that we can know what to expect and test against.

I think the following are the major contenders; Jund, 5-color cascade, harsh aggro like boros/vamps, UWR control, and a good mid-range Black vamp deck.

5 Color Cascade > Jund and control but loses to aggro

But what does everything else beat and lose to?
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Duodax



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are G/R elves LOOL Shocked
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ILikeBananas wrote:


If you want a competitive WUB deck, start by analyzing how to beat jund with it. Simply put, when a deck runs a 4/4 for GB, a 3/3 that turns into 3 tokens for GRB, and a 3/2 for 4 mana that flips into a blightning, you're screwed. Esper does not have the creatures to match in size, and does not have the same cost efficient creatures. Jund also have the most efficient removal spells via Maelstrom pulse, terminate, and bituminous blast. Esper colors have no decent removal outside of path and day of judgement. Jund beats esper in tempo, card advantage, and creature size. You can refine it all day and it'll be tier 2 at best. I'm saying this AFTER I've tested similar deck to yours.

Good luck.


That was the best description of the current format Ive read.


Thats the best quote of the best description of the current format Ive read.
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Arkham



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you kaamos
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Verystrait42



Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think jund is obviously the best deck in the format. But there are pleanty of Teir 2 decks that have a chance.
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kumagmd



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The format is like this... Jund, and NOT Jund. Kinda like the time when it was the Fae, or NOT Fae. Or Reflecting Pool control and NOT Reflecting Pool control. Or Affinity and anti-affinity. It's really kinda lame how people just don't have any creativity anymore (copy and paste latest top net deck).

Of course, there's the fabulous occasional Es Una Trappa and GR Elves! Haha!
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Pillsburry



Joined: 17 Oct 2009
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

// Lands
4 [ALA] Crumbling Necropolis
4 [M10] Drowned Catacomb
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [ZEN] Swamp (3)
4 [ZEN] Akoum Refuge
3 [ZEN] Island (2)
3 [ZEN] Mountain (1)

// Creatures
4 [ARB] Kathari Remnant
3 [ZEN] Sphinx of Jwar Isle

// Spells
4 [ALA] Blightning
3 [ARB] Bituminous Blast
4 [ALA] Cruel Ultimatum
4 [ALA] Courier's Capsule
4 [ARB] Terminate
4 [M10] Lightning Bolt
4 [ZEN] Burst Lightning

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ARB] Bituminous Blast
SB: 1 [ZEN] Sphinx of Jwar Isle
SB: 4 [ALA] Swerve
SB: 1 [CFX] Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
SB: 2 [ZEN] Sphinx of Lost Truths
SB: 4 [ALA] Infest
SB: 2 [M10] Pithing Needle

My worst matchup is White Weenie (Conqueror's Pledge is a disaster if I cant find infest in time).
Jund is one of my best matchups.

This is my deck irl, I don't have any Dragonskull Summit unfortunately =(.
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Pillsburry



Joined: 17 Oct 2009
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QuaziPance wrote:
Spreading seas is really good against jund. They can't do a whole lot if they are missing one of their three colors. And their mana base is very unstable.

Convincing mirage and things that bounce permanents are also good.

I'll post a list:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ALA] Crumbling Necropolis
4 [M10] Drowned Catacomb
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [M10] Dragonskull Summit
4 [ZEN] Island (2)
4 [ZEN] Swamp (3)
2 [ZEN] Mountain (1)

// Creatures
4 [ARB] Kathari Remnant
3 [ZEN] Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 [CFX] Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker

// Spells
4 [M10] Lightning Bolt
4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas
4 [M10] Convincing Mirage
4 [ALA] Grixis Charm
1 [ZEN] Rite of Replication
3 [ARB] Bituminous Blast
4 [ARB] Deny Reality
3 [ALA] Cruel Ultimatum

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [M10] Pyroclasm
SB: 3 [ARB] Terminate
SB: 4 [LRW] Jace Beleren
SB: 3 [ARB] Thought Hemorrhage


Note that this is NOT my deck. I did not design this or come up ith the idea to use it. I don't remember whose deck it is, or even what forum, but it is rather good against jund.

I have also changed a few things since I copied it, but I don't remember what.

The basic idea is that everything cascades into messing with their mana up until you are in total control and have cruel mana or nico bolas mana or a few sphinx's.

The other idea of the deck is that standard is has a VERY high percentage of people NOT playing blue. And if they are, they still take a beating when you get rid of their non-blue lands.

Because decks this simple can beat Jund, I'm assuming that eventually Jund will become less dominant and Gr Elves, Vamps, boros, RDW, trap, etc. Will start to fill in the gaps, leaving a rather odd standard for the next few months.

I personally think I will just be drafting until worldwake comes out and things make a little more sense.


Its mine Wink, I'm Nightwish from tcgplayer forum Very Happy.

main deck plays the land disruption theme, then if I face fast aggro decks or monocolor decks, my sb changes my deck into "Cruel Control".

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=465347
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pascal3000
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MonoG elves are the next big suprise deck. Not sure how long it will last though...
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jund is actually pretty bad in an 8 or 10 round tournament.

The more you play Jund the more terrible draws and mulls to 5 you are going to get.

The deck is inconsistent as hell. It's just a luck based deck where someone is gonna get god draws every round and top 8, but the other 90% of Jund players aren't.

Jund is past its prime. It is now on the decline, permanently.

Mono and two color decks are a solid choice if for no other reason than mana consistency - provided they still have the tools to win games.

In that sense, Magic-League's 6 round single elim tourneys do not reflect the real world tourney environment so I definitely wouldn't base your deck choice off the past couple of Magic-League trials (common sense right?).
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion Jund still good as it was in the past... The diference is that there are a growing number of "anti-Jund" decks... Much people made decks exclusively thinking in how to beat Jund...
And that's cause everyone was playing Jund!! It was starting to be boring to play T2, allways playing Jund or against it...

I'm happy that this situation changed, and keeps changing...
I keep seeing more and more decks, other then Jund, and there are very good and competitive...

I'm happy that the JUND vs JUND days are over... cause it happened plenty of times... Too many people playing it... =\

Present days, Jund are much more vulgar deck, at least on casual games... Razz
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chakal-PT



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The deck that I keep seeing now, more and more, is WU control with Luminarch Ascension... Everyone is playing it now... Maybe I'm wrong, but at least, I keep playing against it day after day... In 10 games, I see 7 to 8 players with that deck... Maybe it is the new JUND now? LOL

Well, keeping out the fact of everyone are playing it, I really enjoyed the deck when I started to play with it weeks ago... and it's not easy to beat it... Wink
Usually I had a 80 to 90% of winnings with that deck...
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Pillsburry



Joined: 17 Oct 2009
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see Eldrazi deck everywhere... like every game I play they're playing Eldrazi so I started to sb Shatter in boros Laughing
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pillsburry wrote:
I see Eldrazi deck everywhere... like every game I play they're playing Eldrazi so I started to sb Shatter in boros Laughing


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