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Could 5CC hang in Extended?


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rentintin3



Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idk I suck at deck building its. But there are a lot of fae from last season that played 5clrs. So i think it is totally viable
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-DK-



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the vivid + reflecting pool mana base isnt as resilient in extended as in standard, there is quite a bit of playable non basic hate in the format, but since fetch lands are rotating out, im sure we will see some decks sporting this mana base. time will only tell if it will be viable in extended.
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the huge problems is that both, Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon are legal and played in the format. Not only that, but they can come out accelerated turn 1-2.

Also, Extended Zoo is horribly much more efficient than Standard aggro; stuff like Plumeveil looks silly next to a Tarmogoyf and a sweeper turn 4 doesn't help if you get burned out after.


I'm sure it will be tried, but really, Extended decks are much better positioned to punish you for CiPTing lands than Standard decks.
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rentintin3



Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course they are they have a much bigger card pool. But what I consider 5clr doesn't mean I am playing vivds at all. you could easly play like some filters and duels plus pool. Plus either way for control you are playing Islands or non basics both are hated a bunch so. Also I would like to say there are a lot of good removal now. Pte and pact are good answers to your prob also lighting bolt answers that guy to not to mention firespout. which is played or was a least. That said I like there are some control cards in the format that could make it good enough ie baneslayer uh maybe esper charm idk I am sure there are other good cards
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without fetches, you can't make the manabase work consistently enough to compete in 5c with just duals. You need a core color and fetches to go that way, which makes the classic 5c functional.
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rentintin3



Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah except the Classic 5Clr would be with green and way before onslaught.
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rentintin3 wrote:
Yeah except the Classic 5Clr would be with green and way before onslaught.


...OP is talking about standard 5CC. Invasion-era Domain is a whole different archetype, and obviously not Extended-legal since it's the cards are banned, and The Deck is neutered by having 0 of the broken cards it's built around. What kind of "Classic 5-Color" are you talking about here that's somehow relevant to the discussion?
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rentintin3



Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh forgot about domain. Hell I was talking about 5clr green. But what I am trying to point out is you don't have to use the vivvid lands in a 5clr control.
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rentintin3 wrote:
Oh forgot about domain. Hell I was talking about 5clr green. But what I am trying to point out is you don't have to use the vivvid lands in a 5clr control.


In one built like the T2 5CC he's referring to, you do. With present extended cardpool anyways. With Fetches, it could've been doable otherwise, but without, that's the only way to get a consistent access to all 5 colors in quantity.

5c Green is a different animal - it splashes and it cares about colored costs. You'd never see Cryptic Command (UUU) in 5c Green, for example, but it's a mainstay in 5c Control specifically because all lands produce all colors.
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alvaro202



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hai guis. I know this is MAgic Leaague forums and all, but we could at least be more civil about the discussion. Plz poast some lists so people can relate to what the fuck your talking about. Experienced and new players alike can read a list and give useful criticism to a deck list and even speculate on its viability in extended. Just talking about 5cc, 5cgr, and other irrelevant and unexplained archetypes does nothing for the discussion.
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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And your backseat moderation and telling people to keep an already civil discussion civil without making any contribution yourself makes you look like a complete ass alvaro.

As for porting 5cc from Standard to extended...not possible. Apart from Eldariel's excellent point about nonbasic hate (although I would extend this to Ghost Quarter, Molten Rain et al.), it really has no way of standing up to a combo deck unless you opt in to more counters. Cruel Ultimatum is far too slow for the format, and the other control/tempo options far outclass 5cc here.

The reason 5cc works so well in Standard is because it enjoys a slower format where it doesn't really need to be worried about attacking turn 1 or 2 plays much of the time - it can sit back and let late-game grunt get there. It's not possible in extended - the decks that define the speed of the format win inside five turns and don't have trouble getting around what 5cc can throw at it.
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SniperMayer



Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget that extended has nice removal spells and some useable counters... They both help 5cc. Try it, playtest it and we'll see.
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Burton911



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imo all starts with the Question: Why you wan't to play with 5 Colors?

Green is unnecessary in Ext since you dont ned neiter Tresher nor Stag.
There is no need for red as well, as it only enables a few Multicolored Cards and the Fallouts which aren't needed in Ext.

This leaves us with a UWB Shell which could be very good in the right meta with some tuning, but that won't have nothing in common with T2 5CC anymore besides both of them are Controll Decks.

I posted a List in the Scepter Chant Tread which goes in that direction, and is build around Mystical Teachings, it would probably be alot better without the Scepter Silence Package though Very Happy.
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LordHawk



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tron just seems better
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Paddi



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think 5cc will be playable after the Extended rotation, but not as the Cruel Control that's atm played in T2. I think you'll have to play things like Birds and Signets for Manafixing and against Blood Moon/Magus and you can try to go back to the Gifts Toolbox with Witness, Zombify and for example Cruel Ultimatum/Explosives/Death Cloud/Akroma/Wrath of God (or whatever you play as solutions or win options)

But to say 5cc is definitly unplayable in Extended would be silly.

EDIT: I forgot about Farseek and Reap and Sow for mana fixing Wink
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