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R3wind
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 875
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 Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: Ugr GiftsPOST post-rotation. |
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I am working on a post rotation Control deck. I would like some feedback. As we get info on Eventide I will up ate the deck with cards that fit the game plan.
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [TSP] Island (1)
3 [DIS] Breeding Pool
3 [GP] Steam Vents
2 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [TSP] Forest (4)
1 [TSP] Mountain (4)
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
// Creatures
1 [DS] Sundering Titan
1 [MR] Triskelion
1 [10E] Platinum Angel
// Spells
4 [RAV] Remand
4 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
4 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
4 [FD] Condescend
3 [GP] Repeal
3 [DIS] Simic Signet
3 [GP] Izzet Signet
3 [SHM] Firespout
2 [GP] Electrolyze
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
1 [MR] Mindslaver
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MR] Triskelion
SB: 1 [SHM] Firespout
SB: 2 [GP] Electrolyze
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [BOK] Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 3 [DIS] Indrik Stomphowler
SB: 1 [DIS] Ghost Quarter
SB: 1 [TSP] Trickbind
I am mostly unsure about some of the sideboard choices. The deck is based off of the Ug TRON list from Ben Lundquist, GP Vancouver 2008. This deck was 2nd place for that GP. The link to that list is provided here for reference.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1007685
Firespout seems like an autoupdate over Moment's Peace. I wanted more cantrips as we already moved into red for Firespout, Electrolyze also seems to fit the bill. Trickbind is for the combo matches like TEPS. Graveyard combo decks like Dredge could be an issue as we only have 4 anti graveyard card to side. Ghost Quarter is for the control matches or aggro decks with lots of man lands.
1 [MR] Triskelion
1 [SHM] Firespout
2 [GP] Electrolyze
This is for Teeg!!! Doran decks with Teeg main deck prove to be really bad for the deck. We have Threads to deal with Tarmogoyf from the side. If you think that you will see a lot of Doran decks in your area then you should include one Vedalken Shackles in the main as part of the gifts package.
Indrik Stomphowler is for the other combo deck in the format Ideal. It's aslo very good in the control match as well.
So let the comments begin. |
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Epic-Juzam37
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| trash for treasure? |
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aldaryn
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 443
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| firespout sounds great in theory, but you definitely will not be killing turn 2 doran's or 5/6 goyfs with it |
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R3wind
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Right that's why you may need to add Vedalken Shackles to the main deck as part of the gifts package. Firespout has done well in the aggro match. Electrolyze half of the time is an eot cantrip. I may be changing that around. |
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Streakz
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 101
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Shouldn't this be in the casual thread? |
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R3wind
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| oOPraiz wrote: | | Shouldn't this be in the casual thread? |
If you read my whole post then you would have had all of the info.
I think that red is a natural addition to the deck as Moment's Peace rotates out. |
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Eldar
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Rochester
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Well you have no way to beat affinity with this deck. I really think moment's peace made this deck and without it you may be in trouble against agro decks. You definitely want one main deck recall to stall affinity even more and probably more sideboard. Electrolyze seems bad. Also if you plan to run life from the loam there is no reason to run it with a cycling land engine. Maybe run a razormane masticore. Just my 2 cents but this deck has a chance of working out. |
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R3wind
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your useful post. I did see the glaring hole vs Affinity also. I was planing on adding Hurkyl's Recall to the side. The Electrolyze slot from the side will be Hurkyl's Recall.
How would you make the changes to the deck?
How about this?
Main
-2 Electrolyze
+1 Hurkyl's Recall
+1 Razormane Masticore
Sideboard
-2 Electrolyze
+2 Hurkyl's Recall
How would you adjust the mana to add the cycling lands? I would like to keep the non-basics to down if I can. The deck does not like Blood Moon effects. |
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gypsy
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 811
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| why not wait till theres an actual metagame before you build a deck. you have sb cards vs dredge and teps when those decks wont be around after the rotation. maybe dredge will be but it will be nowhere near as good as it was. |
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kfcman
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 665
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| gypsy wrote: | | why not wait till theres an actual metagame before you build a deck. you have sb cards vs dredge and teps when those decks wont be around after the rotation. maybe dredge will be but it will be nowhere near as good as it was. |
I agree and disagree with this.
Having a SB against decks like that, yes, totally agree. Those decks will be gone.
However, saying wait till there's a metagame, i disagree with. How do you think the metagame comes about? Players build decks from the cards in the format. That's your metagame. I think that if you can predict some of the decks that will be for sure in the meta post rotation then you can build a strong deck, then adapt it to be better against decks you could not predict. For instance, predicting that affinity and zoo decks will be widely played would be a good assumption to make as they're fast aggresive decks, and fast aggressive decks always define the early part of new formats. Also, those 2 decks are proven quality decks in extended and lose virtually nothing. |
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gypsy
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 811
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| electrolize isnt that good but firespout is. and why are u playing so many basic lands and duals when u can play fetchlands? |
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kfcman
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 665
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| gypsy wrote: | | electrolize isnt that good but firespout is. and why are u playing so many basic lands and duals when u can play fetchlands? |
Yea fetchlands are sweeeet..
Its probably because a lot of people (including myself) previously thought the rotation was mirrodin and up.
It is actually Onslaught block and up after the rotation, so put those fetchlands back in your deck. |
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Acid_Christ
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 461
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Its probably because a lot of people (including myself) previously thought the rotation was mirrodin and up. |
It was going to be Mirrodin and up, but then they switched it to be "the last 7 years". Yay for Goblins and Affinity ruling the aggro archetype. and yay for Fetchlands.
I don't see how Firespout can be a replacement for Moment's Peace. Moment's Peace worked at Instant speed, allowing your opponent to swing wide open only to leave themself wide open. Against Dredge Firespout does nothing because they "combo off" on their turn. Moment's Peace had flashback, so you basically got 2 cards in one, or if your opponent doesn't give it to you with Gifts, you still get to play it from the grave. It may just be my opinion, but Firespout fails in comparison to Moment's Peace.
And why the Cloudpost/Vesuva over the Urza Lands? I thought the Urza lands were played over it because of the ability to be entirely searched for with Gifts (Tower/Mine/Plant/Loam). |
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Eldar
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Rochester
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| R3wind wrote: | Thanks for your useful post. I did see the glaring hole vs Affinity also. I was planing on adding Hurkyl's Recall to the side. The Electrolyze slot from the side will be Hurkyl's Recall.
How would you make the changes to the deck?
How about this?
Main
-2 Electrolyze
+1 Hurkyl's Recall
+1 Razormane Masticore
Sideboard
-2 Electrolyze
+2 Hurkyl's Recall
How would you adjust the mana to add the cycling lands? I would like to keep the non-basics to down if I can. The deck does not like Blood Moon effects. |
The manabase would have to be finished when you do testing and that is really the only way to tweak it. As for sideboarding options I honestly like recall main deck as it is a giftable answer but ancient grudge may be more versatile for you in the board and yes electrolyze is poor at best it really shouldn't be in there. As for the dredge/teps hate in the board you can remove it and work towards you harder matchups like decks with moon/magus. Although the regular moon decks got hurt a lot with the loss of terravore. I think as long as you have a way to deal with magus you should be fine and lucky for you razormane masticore is huge here.
On a side note you can get cloudpost x3 and loam to get lots of mana as well with gifts. I personally have always been a tron guy but hey whatever you fancy.
The other benefit of adding cycling lands that I just love is the aspect of comboing with cards like solitary confinement. I know and am saddened at the loss of this in my slide list however you have razormane masticore and with loam you can keep him around for a very very long time with this engine.
And yes I will be rocking slide for next extended season as the deck just rapes anything that resolves around creatures. *cough* affinity.
Fetchlands would help your mana base out enough so that you could run less shocklands and more cycling lands. I may post my new astral slide list within the next couple months and prove how crazy a mana base can be with the help of fetches as proven with my slide list from last year. |
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aldaryn
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 443
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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tron will still be extremely good, but I think you need to go UW tron. The main problem is the Gifts package is harder to assemble with Petrified Field rotating, but you get Wrath of God in addition to Decree of Justice and Exalted Angel still being legal; Decree of Justice is one of the best cards Tron can have.
Also, I forgot to mention I kind of like Grim Poppet over Triskelion, since it gets bigger. |
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