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UW Control



 
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Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: UW Control Reply with quote

I'm a big fan of draw-go styled control, and really miss almost-creatureless blue-based decks. Well, I wanted to make one. Whether it's viable or not, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't mind some help. It's been doing alright in testing. The matchup against Faeries is about 50/50 pre-board. You've got a few tricks against them, but they're still Faeries. Like, a resolved Plumeveil after declaring attackers can be catastrophic for them. Obviously Wrath + Counter backup is amazing. A turn 7 Wrath should turn the tides if you've been getting out-drawn and have Cancel or Cancel + Pact as backup. And if you resolved an Ajani or Guile, then it's over.

Post-board you have Porphyry Nodes, which is extremely underestimated, especially against Faeries. Basically, Porphyry Nodes + Counters > Bitterblossom. If it resolves after Bitterblossom is on the ground, they're on their own clock. And the counters in hand are saved for threats + 'Blossom self-removal like Commands or Mistbind Clique. The post-board matchup against Faeries is about 70/30 or 80/20 depending on their build.

As for other matchups, I haven't gotten to test against Merfolk or Rev yet, as I do I will update. Any aggro has rolled over to this. Creature-based aggro gets their threats removed easily with Plumeveil and Ajani wins post-Wrath. Burn-based aggro is irritating, but if they aim all their burn at the dome, then you counter a few to stay alive and resolve Ajani ftw. I have not lost a single game against any straight aggro in testing.

11-6 against Faeries
4-0 against Mono-Red Aggro + Tarmo
2-0 against Mono-Red Burn
4-0 against RG Aggro
2-0 against BR Sligh/Aggro/Jank
4-0 against BR Bigstuff
1-0 against Mono-Black Rogues (dude left after I dropped Porphyry Nodes g2)
2-0 against GB Elves
4-0 against Mono-Green Aggro

I've still got a lot of testing to do, but any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

// Lands - 23
5 [UNH] Island
4 [LRW] Wanderwine Hub
5 [UNH] Plains
4 [SHM] Mystic Gate
1 [TSP] Urza's Factory
4 [10E] Adarkar Wastes

// Creatures - 6
2 [LRW] Guile
4 [SHM] Plumeveil

// Spells - 31
3 [LRW] Ajani Goldmane
2 [FUT] Pact of Negation
2 [10E] Wrath of God
4 [TSP] Think Twice
4 [10E] Condemn
4 [CS] Rune Snag
4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
4 [TSP] Cancel
4 [TSP] Ancestral Vision

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSB] Teferi's Moat
SB: 4 [PLC] Porphyry Nodes
SB: 4 [LRW] Wispmare
SB: 4 [CS] Flashfreeze


I chose not to run Mutas and other Manlands after running them for a bit because it was so rare that I activated them. I was always saving mana for counters or EOT draw, and more often they screwed my mana for Plumeveil or Commands than they actually helped. So yes, I have tested them, and I didn't like them. Please don't tell me I'm wrong before you test it yourself.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont think u need 4 wanderwine hubs 2-3 is probably good.
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Ludz
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no way this has an around 75/25 matchup against fairies, that is extremely high.
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Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gypsy wrote:
i dont think u need 4 wanderwine hubs 2-3 is probably good.


Hmm, you're probably right. What should I put in for them though?

Ludz wrote:
There is no way this has an around 75/25 matchup against fairies, that is extremely high.


Post-board? Test the deck before you doubt it.
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jazzbat



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't tested the deck but I plan to, just wanted to say that I really like the idea. Sometimes it is frustrating because Standard is quite creature-based, so a new control deck is always welcome (in my opinion).
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kby



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turn two blossom = gg no?

problem is alot of people..and it appears people you playtested against didn't have any... Vexing Shusher should beat this list as well...

I don't think you have enough removal... x4 COndemn ofcourse is needed, anti-man lands, but only 2 wraths?.... i dont see how x6 Removal spells lets you beat half the decks you have shown...

-- -------
also.. test vs something other than shitty tier 2 aggro decks... and a good faeries player also has an advantage over you and can sit back and laugh because you have to make the first move, not them after the blossom drops.

try Mana Tithe, should solve that problem some more.

Negate is also a nice card, so look into it.
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XSquad



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Response to turn two bitterblossom: evoke wispmare. Thats why wispmare is in the board, it wouldn't be of much use otherwise. Interesting decklist, although I prefer mono blue guile myself.
I'm surprised theres no deserts in the decklist, considering the popularity of faeries, and even more surprised that your deck has any consistency with only 23 land. Control deck needs, especially if not mono colored, can have intense mana requirements at times and 23 lands is a huge risk. Finally, wheres teferi himself???
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Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kby wrote:
turn two blossom = gg no?

problem is alot of people..and it appears people you playtested against didn't have any... Vexing Shusher should beat this list as well...

I don't think you have enough removal... x4 COndemn ofcourse is needed, anti-man lands, but only 2 wraths?.... i dont see how x6 Removal spells lets you beat half the decks you have shown...

---------
also.. test vs something other than shitty tier 2 aggro decks... and a good faeries player also has an advantage over you and can sit back and laugh because you have to make the first move, not them after the blossom drops.

try Mana Tithe, should solve that problem some more.

Negate is also a nice card, so look into it.


Turn two Blossom is only a problem when either they're playing or I don't have a Rune Snag, and post-board I have 8 more ways of dealing with it on turn two. Porphyry Nodes > Blossom, and even Faeries in general, and Wispmare is as well for obvious reasons.

Vexing Shusher didn't help them at all. All I did was Wrath... Ajani and Guile do the rest of the work. Even if they drop a 2nd Shusher, they've lost too much tempo, and instead of me having to counter their stuff, they have to deal with MY threats, which are pretty difficult to deal with. Like I said, burn-based aggro is irritating, and Vexing Shusher coming in makes it fairly difficult, but if I drop Ajani they HAVE to aim burn at it or lose.

And Faeries does NOT get to sit back and laugh, unless they're holding a full hand of counterspells. I told you how I deal with Blossom, and without Blossom they can't do much that I can't deal with.

Mana Tithe is great... the first time you cast it. And then you HAVE to take it out against any half-decent player.

I mean, I'll test it, but I've been trying to make it work since it came out and it's just too unreliable. Plus, after turn 4, it's a dead draw if they've seen it.

GB Elves, RG Aggro, and MRA are NOT "shitty tier-2 aggro decks". First off, Elves won the PT. MRA is a house, both versions of it, and RG Aggro can drop some serious threats.

Honestly, I don't believe for a second that you read a single word I wrote except the decklist. If you did, read it again, because apparently you missed everything important that I wrote.
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Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XSquad wrote:
Response to turn two bitterblossom: evoke wispmare. Thats why wispmare is in the board, it wouldn't be of much use otherwise. Interesting decklist, although I prefer mono blue guile myself.
I'm surprised theres no deserts in the decklist, considering the popularity of faeries, and even more surprised that your deck has any consistency with only 23 land. Control deck needs, especially if not mono colored, can have intense mana requirements at times and 23 lands is a huge risk. Finally, wheres teferi himself???


Teferi didn't work out very well in testing. Since I run four Ancestral Visions and four Think Twice, I can keep a 2-3 land hand. The Deserts were in there originally, but I ended up taking them out because I was getting screwed every time on Plumeveil/Commands. They don't work very well with Mystic Gate.

Oh, and Wispmare is actually a sub-par way to deal with Bitterblossom. I honestly prefer Porphyry Nodes. It's just a complete house against them, because not only does it rape Bitterblossom and keep them losing life, but it kills Scion if they decide to play it. And they have a serious problem dealing with it, especially after a turn two Blossom. Because of its usefulness in not only this matchup, but in almost EVERY matchup, I've been thinking about working it into the main.
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emerus



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the best looking control deck is a version of Wafo-Tapa, but running Mystical Teachings + Teferi package.

It's the closest to draw-go in this format.
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Noobsauce



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been playtesting this deck and I must say, it has surprised me. I'm a fan of draw-go but i thought it was dead.

Anyway, im having serious trouble with with Merfolk. Basically aggro-control rips this deck apart. Is there anything for faeries/merfolk?
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think you need like 4 wraths in the deck. and i think you can play some number of reflecting pools and charge lands.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 Wrath of God isn't enough. Against swarm you need it every game, and preferably two every game. Play 4.

Personally, I don't think Ajani does any good - you have a counterdeck, and tapping out 2WW to get 2 life in your own turn, and on top of that not even getting a blocker is not even close to optimal. Ajani's best ability is the +1/+1 and vigilance ability and she therefore works best in a more aggressive deck (in the place of cards like Glorious Anthem and other pumpers). If you want lifegain, Martyr of Sands and Kitchen Finks are a lot better at what they do.

23 lands aren't enough even though you play 4 think twice and 4 ancestral vision. If you have to counter a spell turn 2 and 3, you don't get to use think twice, and if you miss the 4th land-drop (or any land-drop, actually), you never get back the tempoloss. 25 lands or 24 lands, 4 artifact mana acceleration are minimum in a deck like this.
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Alandariel



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ajani works wonders, you'd be suprised. If the lifegain alone doesn't make it impossible for them to win, the clock I get two turns later does. It gains life against aggro, and finishes well against other control.

I don't like the charge lands... I always have something to do with my mana and I'd rather not take the chance of screwing myself over with Mystic Gate. And Reflecting Pool in a 2 color deck is just stupid. Especially when the second color is so minor.

I haven't ran into problems with lands yet, but I probably should be running more anyway. I originally planned 4x Mind Stone, but ended up cutting it while making the original build. I just haven't really needed any acceleration, I seem to control pretty well with what I have.

I appreciate the constructive criticism (especially from gyspy wtf), but I do highly suggest you test out the deck. Things don't always work how they look on paper. I've found that out way too many times with decks that DO look good on paper. Wink
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Martin_PL



Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest Kitchen Finks for the sideboard. They have a nice synergy with Ajani.
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