vexing shusher doesnt do shit in standard

natethetank · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 67

i dont think it does anything. first of all there are no true control decks in the format. the only decks that you use them vs are merfolk and faeries. both of these decks can kill shusher (oring, nameless inversion,terror) and the best lists dont even run that many cspells. and there best cspell cryptic command can do other things. on top of these things it shusher makes all your spells really clunky and makes you have to lose tons of tempo so you have enough mana to cast your bomb which they will use actual removal to deal with.i think that we should cut this random crap from our sideboards and if you really want to hate on counterspells play gutteral response.

Dameykins · Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 35

i think it will be a staple in RG decks as an anti-control. every once in a while you will play a control deck and they will be awesome against it. i don't think it sucks, i think it will stay a sideboard card.

But i have seen most decks run 1 in MD just for a surprise against faeries and the such

natethetank · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 67

gypsy · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 708

i mean goyf dies to all this removal lets not play him either, just because something can be killed doesnt mean it will be

natethetank · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 67

it and goyf are two totally diffrent things. goyf is a must deal with threat while shusher is something thats easily neutralized and even if it doesnt get killed doesnt do much for you. frankly i play a deck that has a bunch of counterspells and whenever my oppo casts glittering wish i let it resolve because it either is gonna be some spell i would rather not be in there sb and will counter or its gonna be vexing shusher which i dont care about at all. when i play a counter heavy deck and beat triple shusher draws consistantly i am not impressed with the "counter hoser".

NahHolmes · Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Posts: 583

Yeah I'm with Nate on this one, I play control and could care less about Shusher. Early Game he slows you down to much and late game I'm playing a Control deck and you are playing an aggro deck so I win anyways. If you want to win vs. a control deck with aggro the last thing you want to do is slow yourself down the first 5 turns, Shushers best use is as a 1 of in the SB for Glittering Wish where sometimes he might help.

Orlandu · Joined: 25 Sep 2004 Posts: 156

Yeah I definetly agree with Nate here. It's an amazing sideboard card for something like mana ramp, or a combo deck, but in aggro if you can't play around or bait out their best cspells, you're not a very good aggro player. If you're casting one spell a turn, even if it's uncounterable, that's just not gonna cut it. And if the opponenent has a white open and might be condemn, what are you not gonna attack with your guy? Sweet! I'll gladly condemn your goyf Smile

Besides the fact that his very existence will just have control decks have 3 or 4 extra removal spells on their board that are good against most of your deck anyway. Done!

gypsy · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 708

i dont think its amazing but i dont think it sucks either. if you have an answer for it then its good but if not it its sometimes good. and if your beating shusher anyways why make this thread? it also depends what kind of control your playing.

TugaChampion · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 349

Well Susher is well played if you play it mainly as a beater. If you actually need something to resolve (let's say cloudtresher vs. faeries) you use 1 extra mana but if it's just some beater or burn you shouldn't wait 1 turn to play it. But if you actually have several option like 3 mana, keldon marauders, call of the herd and shock you can play keldon and eot shock them and next turn play call.

There are 2 problems with him:

there aren't many counterspells in T2 and the most important ones are in faeries which have many good ways to stop it and sometimes don't even care about it.

a 2/2 for 2 isn't good anymore unless it also has something very good attached (Lord of Atlantis, Tin Street Hooligan, Silver Knight, etc). What susher brings attached to him is very good but not in this meta. Teeg also sees little play in T2 but in Extended it sees a lot of play. That's because it shuts down more things and also it's colors are more played there as well as the mana fixing is way greater. Susher is easier on the mana but it doesn't feat the curve of any aggro deck.

natethetank · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 67

gypsy · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 708

well your not really going to play against the best people with the most optimal lists on m-l

Ggerg · Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 333

dude! it's a 2/2 for 2 that's alway gonna hit.

great two-drop in R/G

...what's the issue here?

like...ur just playing to beat face anyway...now u have some extra utility at no added cost.

it may be slightly overrated, but it's still pure awesome

TugaChampion · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 349

The problem is: a 2/2 for 2 against most of the field is bad. There were times when you played 2/2 for 2 with drawbacks and they were good. Not now. I mean in Extended Savannah Lions is hardly played now (you can thank Tarmogoyf and Moog Fanatic)!

In T2 green has Vanquisher, Tarmogoyf and the Bramblewood Paragon and Wolf-Skull Shaman. Red has Keldon Marauders (Lava Axe for 1R), Incinerate, Lash Out and even Mudbrawler Cohort is said to be good with enough 1drops. There's even Tattermunge Witch. If it was 3/2 or 3/1 it would be too good and an obvious inclusion and it's an alread complex card and couldn't have anything else on it.

Acid_Christ · Joined: 28 Aug 2004 Posts: 432

I could have told you this. Sure, it stops counters, but it still dies to spot removal or even mass removal. Maybe if it had Shroud then it would be better, but otherwise its too situational of a card.

Can we start talking about the overhyped and overpriced Fulminator Mage now?

Eldar · Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 341 Location: Rochester

Shusher by itself is a fine card not a great card but a fine card. Now the thing that makes it such a great card in type 2 is that it speeds up the format. It gives the red decks the kinds of draws that punish control decks and faerie decks and makes them have a way to spend extra resources on something not nearly as important. From testing purposes I have found shusher to be amazing against decks like faeries. Basically it comes down to this. You have a board of shusher and say goyf and your opponent is holding terror and mana to rune snag the following turn. So they terror shusher and snag your drop the following turn allowing you to bash freely with goyf. Shusher simply provides added incentive for it to be dealt with. Without dealing with it the red deck happily pays 4 for an uncounterable char or 1 for an uncounterable rift bolt, etc. They slow down a bit on tempo if need be to get what needs to get in there in there. It puts them in the driver's seat and forces the opponent to make more mistakes. Overall, shusher is most times going to be irrelevant which is why he rides the sideboard, however in certain matchups he just edges decks into the I win if he sticks column which makes him well worth it. He further adds to the "punish bad draws or suboptimal hand" strategies that red decks are made for. Plain and simple.