Wither

Invader · Joined: 26 Dec 2007 Posts: 4

How does wither work exactly in this situation, pls tell me Smile

:

When I get on my creature with persist a -1/-1 counter and I have ajani goldmade and then I do the abilitie from him to put a +1/+1 counter on each creature I control. Does this reset the -1/-1 coutner OR does the creature then have a -1/-1 counter and a +1/+1 counter as well???

I hope u understand i know my english is bad.

thank you for answers

thedarkness · Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 446

A (fairly?) recent rules change that was meant to reduce the number of counters on a given card at a given time had the following result:

+1/+1 and -1/-1 (or +0/+1 and -0/-1) counters cancel each other out on a 1:1 basis.

So Ajani will remove your Persisted creatures' counters.

Clariax, correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: the example was not the only one, I was trying to say ANY counters that have exact opposite effects will cancel each other out.

So if a card has 3 +1/+1 counters on it, and is given a -1/-1 counter, it instead loses a +1/+1 counter, rather than gaining an additional counter.

gypsy · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 417

you are correct

thedarkness · Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 446

I know, I just wanted Clariax to confirm so that no nubcakes tell me I'm wrong. >_>

For the record, I still DO want Clariax to confirm so that no nubcakes tell me I'm wrong. >_>

Invader · Joined: 26 Dec 2007 Posts: 4

thats very cool thank u persist + ajani is yeahhh

Trotsky1 · Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 546

If this rule change is true which it probably is (I'll be fully convinced if hardtrack confirms) then doest that screw over Hunter of Eyesblight a little. Minor nit pick.

ronjeremyjr · Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 40

It is a fairly recent rules change. When state based effects check the counter cancel each other out in a one to one ratio.

kfcman · Joined: 16 Sep 2006 Posts: 577

Invader · Joined: 26 Dec 2007 Posts: 4

my english is not so good as i said. What means that, does the rule change in few time?

Hardtrack · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 234

They added a State-Based Effect when Time Spiral came out (or round around that time). It had everyone scratching their heads why they would change something so trivial, but it all makes sense now Smile

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420.5n If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.

So putting a +1/+1 counter on a creature with a -1/-1 counter will remove both. This rule was probably specifically put in for Shadowmoor and will not change any time soon.

gypsy · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 417

i dont think it was put in for shadowmoor because they made this ruke change a while ago, still pretty recent but not close enough to shadowmoor that its because of it

Invader · Joined: 26 Dec 2007 Posts: 4

but when Safehold Elite has a +1/+1 coutner on it and then dies it is 1/1 or not? --> ok know i know that Smile

sry if im a little nervy but im also new in magic since lorwyn

edit: other question:
When ajni removes the -1/-1 coutner does the creature then still have vigliance?

Hardtrack · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 234

Ajani Goldmane.

The +1/+1 counter and the fact it has vigilance have nothing to do with each other. Removing the +1/+1 counter will do nothing against the vigilance.

Magic sets take over two years to design and develop. The actual designing takes up most of the first year, the second year is for development. Which means they knew what the major theme of Shadowmoor was well over a year ago, round about the time they added the SBE. I'm 99,9% sure the SBE was added because of Shadowmoor. I, of course, have no proof but why else add something so trivial which is only used on 19 cards, none of which see any competitive play.