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G/W Snow Control



 
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Avata



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:36 am    Post subject: G/W Snow Control Reply with quote

Okay, so I don't normally post decklists here for critique, but I've been testing this and it actually seems to be working, so I thought I'd see what the community thought.

The original idea (sparked by Finkel winning again) was that Ophidian, back in the day, was amazing. We have two Ophidians in standard at the moment that are both superior to the original, so my first decklist was a G/B/U mash-up that didn't work. Then I realized 1) Ohran Viper is a snow creature and 2) turn one elf into turn 2 viper is still pretty strong and came up with this:

Land:

9 snow-covered forest
4 snow-covered plains
4 arctic flats
3 mouth of ronom
3 scrying sheets

Creatures:

4 birds of paradise
4 boreal druid
4 ohran viper
4 phyrexian ironfoot
2 masked admirer
1 chameleon colossus
1 cloudthresher
1 adarkar valkyrie
1 crovax, ascendant hero

Spells:

4 into the north
4 wrath of god
4 oblivion ring
3 primal command

It started as mono green, then moved to green/white for creature removal and better command toolbox options. Basically, Ironfoot, Wrath, and the lifegain on primal command keep aggro busy, and masked admirers and scrying sheets along with ohran viper can grind out a card advantage war with "traditional" control. The primal commands are probably what people will criticize the most, but it's been surprisingly good for me - it lets me run toolbox, gives life vs. aggro, shuffles away problem permanents, puts a land on top vs. control, and even gives me some graveyard disruption against reviellark.

Any suggestions/comments?

(Does anyone else get the urge to slip in a single copy of Dark Depths when playing into the north? I'm so sad that it's terrible. ) Crying or Very sad
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Conkisstador



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

criticize is an interesting word and most people forget what it means. Primal Command is a great card in all formats. Yes. ALL Formats.

It's never useless and the standard use of:
1- Plow a permanent
2- Dig for the right creature for this situation

...is a great effect in standard. In other formats it serves as a hoser. In general it's just never dead and just wins matchups like burn or graveyard interactions.

Going from there... I like your list a lot but the turn 1 elf, turn 2 viper strategy takes a hit when you only have 9 sources that can do it. I know you like the Snow factory you've got going but skred is the most powerful Snow-related card and missing once or twice on Sheets is not horrible. As is your hand is average to have 1 forest in opener. Maybe you should run Lllanowar elves over Borel Druid? At least 2 of them should make the swap.

Also, Treetop Village is also worth the slot and should replace at least a plains and a forest, probably a 3rd one is great.

From there I think you're decent and have a solid build. I would get -2 Boreal Elf +2 Garruk in there.

Side note: there are 5 ophidians in standard...
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Ophidian Eye, Keen Sense
Thieving Magpie
Ohran Viper

Dark Depths: With blink.dec and cryptic command existing... there's one way you should ever run it... if your meta has neither of those cards in it Smile
The real upside isnt the 20/20 itself... its the foil token 20/20 that's badass Smile
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Avata



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I hadn't realized I was running so few lands that came in untapped for green. I'll probably end up cutting a plains and a scrying sheets in favor of two more forests.

On the subject of man-lands, I think the best one suited for a deck like this would be urza's factory, which seems to have been forgotten as of late. It has far more late game punch than treetop village or mutavault, and in the midgame, I'd much rather be tapping scrying sheets or playing spells.

As for Adarkar - wow. She's been pretty strong for me just as a 4 power flyer with vigilance, and I'd been having her keep my men alive - I didn't even realize she could swipe the opponents men.

I need to RTFC. Rolling Eyes

Also, primal command is indeed a house. It's especially amusing during those games where it sees play on turn 3 and your opponent has dropped a CiPT land.

I've been thinking about trying it as G/B snow control, but then I lose the most interesting parts of my toolbox, as well as the catch-all Oblivion Ring, which has removed many a Garruk and Loxodon Warhammer.

Also, sideboard suggestions would be awesome.
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YWNightmare



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't normally post decklists here either but GW has been underrated so ill give a hand Wink

Well i have this list that i've been working in about 3/4 weeks on mtgo, along the way i top8'd a couple of PE's and won lots of queues so ill post it here.

3 Brushland
6 Snow-Covered Forest
6 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Treetop Village
4 Arctic Flats
2 Mouth of Ronom
1 Urza's Factory

2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
2 Cloudthresher
1 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
4 Phyrexian Ironfoot

1 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Wrath of God
3 Condemn
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Harmonize
4 Into the North
4 Oblivion Ring
2 Primal Command
4 Search for Tomorrow

Sideboard
3 Eyes of the Wisent
3 Imperial Mask
4 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
3 Quagnoth
2 Tivadar of Thorn

well, thats it. missing one scrying sheets cuz i dont have it but it would be a snow forest maybe.
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KeySam



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 649

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, i kind of like your idea here.

I dislike the Corvax, it doesnt seem to do a hole lot in your deck(when do you actually want to play him??). It kills 8 of your creatures and weaken each other. There almost no thoughness 1 guys to be killed. (I guess its a hard to kill creature but still)

On Phyrexian Ironfoot i am not sure. On the one hand its snow and a 3/4. On the other hand you have call of the herd, which is simply amazing against all non bounce decks(and even against blink its ok).(It also doesn trigger admires but well).

Something someone earlier said, those 1 mana creatures seem fine, but if your running only 8 3 drops that realy taking advantage of a turn 1 play, their usualy not good enough to be played(the chance of getting that play is about 50%. That means in 50% of the times your not able to make a turn 1 mana crea or play a turn 2 3 drop. I think wall of roots seems like a fine card in this deck and you already play into the north anyway. That would also open 4 slots.

I didnt played this deck but if your cutting the 1 drops treetop village seems perfect.

The 4 open slots are now personal things. Maybe more big guys, maybe more search targets, maybe some harmonize.(like i said i didnt played this deck so i am not sure)

Just some thoughts

KeySam
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Conkisstador



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 dodecapods is a must in SB. tutoring for 1 when u have 1 against black with 2 cards in hand is funny because they try to thoughtseize it away. (not knowing u have 2x alreday)

primal wins the aggro matchups.
pithin needle can shut off their manlands. just make sure u dont disable your own if u decide to run them. (factory is a decent card for your deck)

4th primal in board strengthens blink and aggro matchups. condemn is another neat card that is cheap and keeps cards out of their grave if u dont want them there. 2nd factory goes ina gainst control.

lastly, quagnoth vs U.
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Conkisstador



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like ironfoot over call. but yes crovax is a lesser answer to faeries than cloudthresher. it's a cut. if u keep it the elves are wose and VIPER STOPS DRAWING.
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YWNightmare



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, crovax is a must in my deck cuz in mtgo there is a lot of goblins and crovax owns goblins.
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KeySam



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 649

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot faeries Wink Forget my corvax sugestions. But vs goblins its not that hot.
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrath of God is antisynergistic with Birds and Vipers, both creatures who like to stay in play for a while. So either cut the Bird/Elf + Viper/Ironfoot strategy and go for non-creature mana accel, or cut Wrath.

Since you play Primal Command already, why not Feudkiller Verdict? That along with big creatures and Loxodon Warhammer would give you an edge towards aggro even without Wrath. Cloudtresher, Troll Ascetic, Akroma of Wrath, Loxodon Warhammer, Feudkiller Verdict, Garruk Wildspeaker ... could that be an idea for you?
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