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patteb
Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 8
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 Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: Tooth n Nail |
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I Know there is another TaN topic, but i really dont like to post another deck into a discussion, so here is my take on it:
// Lands
3 [9E] Swamp (3)
2 [MR] Plains (1)
3 [RAV] Temple Garden
4 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
4 [9E] Forest (1)
3 [9E] Urza's Mine
3 [9E] Urza's Power Plant
3 [9E] Urza's Tower
// Creatures
1 [MR] Platinum Angel
1 [DS] Darksteel Colossus
1 [DIS] Sky Hussar
1 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
// Spells
3 [AP] Vindicate
2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
3 [10E] Sylvan Scrying
3 [7E] Duress
4 [DS] Reap and Sow
3 [OD] Moment's Peace
3 [ON] Smother
4 [MR] Tooth and Nail
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DS] Darksteel Colossus
SB: 1 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 1 [ON] Smother
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [DS] Sundering Titan
SB: 1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [8E] Circle of Protection: Red
I am considering Flagstones + Scapeshift, but i did not yet test this.
Any thoughts? It's open for diskussion. |
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trueeevil
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| how about scapeshift for cloudposts? |
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Vermelho
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Tooth n Nail |
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| patteb wrote: | I Know there is another TaN topic, but i really dont like to post another deck into a discussion, so here is my take on it:
// Lands
3 [9E] Swamp (3)
2 [MR] Plains (1)
3 [RAV] Temple Garden
4 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
4 [9E] Forest (1)
3 [9E] Urza's Mine
3 [9E] Urza's Power Plant
3 [9E] Urza's Tower
// Creatures
1 [MR] Platinum Angel
1 [DS] Darksteel Colossus
1 [DIS] Sky Hussar
1 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
// Spells
3 [AP] Vindicate
2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
3 [10E] Sylvan Scrying
3 [7E] Duress
4 [DS] Reap and Sow
3 [OD] Moment's Peace
3 [ON] Smother
4 [MR] Tooth and Nail
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DS] Darksteel Colossus
SB: 1 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 1 [ON] Smother
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [DS] Sundering Titan
SB: 1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [8E] Circle of Protection: Red
I am considering Flagstones + Scapeshift, but i did not yet test this.
Any thoughts? It's open for diskussion. |
Platinum Angel + Abunas isn't good anymore against aggro (You need Abunas to protect Angel). Before it would be hard for aggro to deal with both Abunas and Angel before you can win because it would need to use 2 cards to kill Abunas and 1-2 cards to deal with Angel. However, with cards like Tribal Flames and Terminate running around for aggro, it's pretty easy. A better duo is Purity + Blazing Archon. There is no deal 6 damage that they run and they'd need to have 2 terminate out because either one of these cards is good. Purity shuts down their burn and Archon stops their attack. Not to mention they attack for 11 together.
I would like to see Garruk. It's a great mana accelerator and u can go on the beast attack plan if necessary. Sensei is 4 of, no questions.
The scapeshift plan is interesting, I should of tried that in my build. Of course you'd never scapeshift for all 4 posts because that's unnecessary. You can probably just go to 2 (max 3) cloudposts. That should be enough to play Tooth the next turn. |
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MilanG[GER]
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| more sundering titan less colors |
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MilanG[GER]
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Tooth n Nail |
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| Asterisk wrote: | | patteb wrote: | I Know there is another TaN topic, but i really dont like to post another deck into a discussion, so here is my take on it:
// Lands
3 [9E] Swamp (3)
2 [MR] Plains (1)
3 [RAV] Temple Garden
4 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
4 [9E] Forest (1)
3 [9E] Urza's Mine
3 [9E] Urza's Power Plant
3 [9E] Urza's Tower
// Creatures
1 [MR] Platinum Angel
1 [DS] Darksteel Colossus
1 [DIS] Sky Hussar
1 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
// Spells
3 [AP] Vindicate
2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
3 [10E] Sylvan Scrying
3 [7E] Duress
4 [DS] Reap and Sow
3 [OD] Moment's Peace
3 [ON] Smother
4 [MR] Tooth and Nail
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DS] Darksteel Colossus
SB: 1 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 1 [ON] Smother
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [DS] Sundering Titan
SB: 1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [8E] Circle of Protection: Red
I am considering Flagstones + Scapeshift, but i did not yet test this.
Any thoughts? It's open for diskussion. |
Platinum Angel + Abunas isn't good anymore against aggro (You need Abunas to protect Angel). Before it would be hard for aggro to deal with both Abunas and Angel before you can win because it would need to use 2 cards to kill Abunas and 1-2 cards to deal with Angel. However, with cards like Tribal Flames and Terminate running around for aggro, it's pretty easy. A better duo is Purity + Blazing Archon. There is no deal 6 damage that they run and they'd need to have 2 terminate out because either one of these cards is good. Purity shuts down their burn and Archon stops their attack. Not to mention they attack for 11 together.
I would like to see Garruk. It's a great mana accelerator and u can go on the beast attack plan if necessary. Sensei is 4 of, no questions.
The scapeshift plan is interesting, I should of tried that in my build. Of course you'd never scapeshift for all 4 posts because that's unnecessary. You can probably just go to 2 (max 3) cloudposts. That should be enough to play Tooth the next turn. |
you wouldn't want to rely on scapeshift only that's why you would still play 4 cloudposts and scryings |
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Lynolf
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Although I wouldn't make my deck around Scapeshift, it would surely be an interesting tech in that deck. I would try it out.
I would also put more creatures to search with Tooth and Nail, to give you more options against certain decks. Here are my possibilities:
- Any Myojin, but I would prefer the red. You can destroy all lands and prevent your opponent from playing anything that can screw you the game.
- Akroma, Angel of Wrath: Fatties are strong (and cool  ); a strong fattie that has protection against lots of removal is great!
- Purity and Blazing Archon.
- Angel of Despair: To destroy a pesky permanent.
- Darkstell Colossus.
Now all depends on you. |
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gypsy
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 638
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| myojin doesnt work with tooth |
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Lynolf
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| gypsy wrote: | | myojin doesnt work with tooth |
You're right. Sorry, I just noticed now.  |
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Vermelho
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Tooth n Nail |
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| MilanG[GER] wrote: | | Asterisk wrote: | | patteb wrote: | I Know there is another TaN topic, but i really dont like to post another deck into a discussion, so here is my take on it:
// Lands
3 [9E] Swamp (3)
2 [MR] Plains (1)
3 [RAV] Temple Garden
4 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
4 [9E] Forest (1)
3 [9E] Urza's Mine
3 [9E] Urza's Power Plant
3 [9E] Urza's Tower
// Creatures
1 [MR] Platinum Angel
1 [DS] Darksteel Colossus
1 [DIS] Sky Hussar
1 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
// Spells
3 [AP] Vindicate
2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
3 [10E] Sylvan Scrying
3 [7E] Duress
4 [DS] Reap and Sow
3 [OD] Moment's Peace
3 [ON] Smother
4 [MR] Tooth and Nail
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DS] Darksteel Colossus
SB: 1 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 1 [ON] Smother
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [DS] Sundering Titan
SB: 1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [8E] Circle of Protection: Red
I am considering Flagstones + Scapeshift, but i did not yet test this.
Any thoughts? It's open for diskussion. |
Platinum Angel + Abunas isn't good anymore against aggro (You need Abunas to protect Angel). Before it would be hard for aggro to deal with both Abunas and Angel before you can win because it would need to use 2 cards to kill Abunas and 1-2 cards to deal with Angel. However, with cards like Tribal Flames and Terminate running around for aggro, it's pretty easy. A better duo is Purity + Blazing Archon. There is no deal 6 damage that they run and they'd need to have 2 terminate out because either one of these cards is good. Purity shuts down their burn and Archon stops their attack. Not to mention they attack for 11 together.
I would like to see Garruk. It's a great mana accelerator and u can go on the beast attack plan if necessary. Sensei is 4 of, no questions.
The scapeshift plan is interesting, I should of tried that in my build. Of course you'd never scapeshift for all 4 posts because that's unnecessary. You can probably just go to 2 (max 3) cloudposts. That should be enough to play Tooth the next turn. |
you wouldn't want to rely on scapeshift only that's why you would still play 4 cloudposts and scryings |
I meant when u actually play Scapeshift, just shoot for 2 cloudposts from your deck. I didn't mean only play 2 cloudposts =\
The creatures you want to include should drastically change the board position.
Kiki-Jiki + Sky Hussar = instant win if opponent cannot kill Kiki or Hussar instantly
Purity + Blazing Archon = Very hard for aggro/burn to win against these two
Kiki-Jiki + Sundering Titan OR Sundering Titan x2 = Punishes dual land users
Triskelion + Mephidross Vampire = Wipes aggro's board clean
You also want Eternal Witness in the deck.
Darksteel Colossus you can include if you find the room. I'm not that big a fan of it though unless your opponent Extirpates/Cranials your Tooths and you want to go all artifact on them with Colossus and Titan.
Lands: 23
6 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Cloudpost
2 Vesuva
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
Accelerants: 16
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Reap and Sow
2 Scapeshift
Anti-Aggro: 7
4 Moment's Peace
3 Pernicious Deed
The Good Stuff: 14
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Tooth and Nail
1 Eternal Witness
1 Purity
1 Blazing Archon
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Sky Hussar
1 Sundering Titan
SIDEBOARD
Extras: 3
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Sundering Titan
Other: 12
1 Trikelion
1 Mephidross Vampire
4 Circle of Protection: Red
2 Indrik Stomphowler
4 Tormod's Crypt/Extirpate/Leyline of the Void
That's a good decklist. The three colors are needed IMO. Deed is better than Oblivion Stone because you don't destroy your Garruks and you don't need 5 mana to activate Deed to kill some 2cc perms.
CoP: Red is important in this meta because of all the burn, in general, going around (Damn Goblins).
Sundering Titan isn't a big problem for you. Against the decks you bring him out against, you hurt them more. |
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center425
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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A rock style deck is the way to go. I ran a list similar to this at the Indy PTQ, and if I wasn't such a scrub I might have done a bit better. I went 5-2-1.
//NAME: Untitled Deck
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http:/
// Lands
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [RAV] Temple Garden
2 [TO] Cabal Coffers
2 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
2 [UNH] Forest
1 [PT] Island (4)
1 [6E] Plains (1)
1 [TE] Swamp (4)
2 [DIS] Breeding Pool
1 [GP] Godless Shrine
1 [RAV] Forest (4)
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
// Creatures
2 [DS] Sundering Titan
2 [MR] Platinum Angel
4 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [MR] Tooth and Nail
4 [IN] Collective Restraint
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
3 [JU] Living Wish
4 [TSP] Search for Tomorrow
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TO] Cabal Coffers
SB: 1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
SB: 1 [MR] Platinum Angel
SB: 2 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
SB: 1 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
SB: 1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
SB: 1 [FUT] Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 [SOK] Kataki, War's Wage
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [FD] Trinket Mage
SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [LRW] Shriekmaw |
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Vermelho
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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@center425: I really don't like that idea. It's too congested. It's trying to incorporate too many ideas.
Angel is too fragile in this meta and Titan probably hurts you a lot. When you Tooth you want to win immediately or a turn or 2 after. I don't really see that happening with your deck. |
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center425
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Asterisk wrote: | @center425: I really don't like that idea. It's too congested. It's trying to incorporate too many ideas.
Angel is too fragile in this meta and Titan probably hurts you a lot. When you Tooth you want to win immediately or a turn or 2 after. I don't really see that happening with your deck. |
The first thing you have to understand is that it is a Rock deck with a finisher that kills quickly. The seconded thing you have to understand is Titan will at most hit 2 of your own lands ever. The next thing is, I can actually win without toothing people out, unlike regular tooth decks.
I have lost once after I played Tooth and Nail with that deck, so I dont really see how you are complaining about not winning with in 2 turns. Double Titan is ErahmGeddon against 90% of the format
Also, Tooth and Nail can not be a pure combo deck in this format, there are 4 combo decks faster than it, and it does not have the tools to beat Zoo with vidicate or molten rain. The deck I purposed can be customized to be able to compete in any metagame. Living Wish, Collective Restraint, and possibly the full set of Deeds give they deck the verstillity Tooth and Nail lacks
Remember, my list isn't as focused on going TOOTH YOU OUT. But it will not lose after it cast Tooth and can actually win without tooth, something traditional list lack
edit: As for angle being fragile, there are a total of like 4 cards that kill it, and Double angle is pretty good or angle+geddon is pretty good.
Last edited by center425 on Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MilanG[GER]
Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Asterisk wrote: | @center425: I really don't like that idea. It's too congested. It's trying to incorporate too many ideas.
Angel is too fragile in this meta and Titan probably hurts you a lot. When you Tooth you want to win immediately or a turn or 2 after. I don't really see that happening with your deck. |
lol |
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Vermelho
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| center425 wrote: | | Asterisk wrote: | @center425: I really don't like that idea. It's too congested. It's trying to incorporate too many ideas.
Angel is too fragile in this meta and Titan probably hurts you a lot. When you Tooth you want to win immediately or a turn or 2 after. I don't really see that happening with your deck. |
The first thing you have to understand is that it is a Rock deck with a finisher that kills quickly. The seconded thing you have to understand is Titan will at most hit 2 of your own lands ever. The next thing is, I can actually win without toothing people out, unlike regular tooth decks.
I have lost once after I played Tooth and Nail with that deck, so I dont really see how you are complaining about not winning with in 2 turns. Double Titan is ErahmGeddon against 90% of the format
Also, Tooth and Nail can not be a pure combo deck in this format, there are 4 combo decks faster than it, and it does not have the tools to beat Zoo with vidicate or molten rain. The deck I purposed can be customized to be able to compete in any metagame. Living Wish, Collective Restraint, and possibly the full set of Deeds give they deck the verstillity Tooth and Nail lacks
Remember, my list isn't as focused on going TOOTH YOU OUT. But it will not lose after it cast Tooth and can actually win without tooth, something traditional list lack
edit: As for angle being fragile, there are a total of like 4 cards that kill it, and Double angle is pretty good or angle+geddon is pretty good. |
Sigh, now that I look closer, this just seems like Gifts Rock except you take out Gifts for Tooth. Titans can be played in regular Tooth without the need of Tooth. Same with Colossus and Triskelion.
Titan only hits 2 of your land huh? That's very dependent on what your opponent has out because I see it hitting more.
You MD 2 Urborg and have one in board for Wish. 1 too many IMO. You know the more I see this, the more I think it's a pile.
It's just Gifts Rock except you take out Gifts and put in Tooth. What the hell is the point of Tooth here? For 2 Sundering Titan? That's not even gg against many decks. Hell I see that thing raping your own lands more than opponents unless your opponent is playing NLB.
Angel won't do much. Every aggro deck can deal with Angel easily. In fact, I see your deck playing very reactive against aggro. It's either you get Collective Restraint down fast (and hope they don't kill it) or just lose. Deed is too slow in this deck.
Tooth decks want to build mana fast and play Tooth around turn 4-5, which would make them take control of the game. Your deck is trying to be like Gifts Rock and Tooth just seems to be a bad card.
Also, all Tooth needs is the mana to play Tooth early and aggro control. Nothing else really hurts it. Even if Tooth is Extirpated/Cranial'd, you can just go on the offense with Colossus, Titans and even the Garruks. |
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patteb
Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| I just won a mini with my list, although a made a very dirty turn involving a deed and a sideboarded in Bosejiu... |
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