OCTGN 2.0 Updated Sept 2009 - Superior to Magic Workstation

NahHolmes · Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Posts: 652

For the purpose of this argument, all that matters is relevant hackers and programmers know how online games function to some level if they are messing with magic gaming script. Seriously to edit any program, even open source, you have to have some knowledge of programing. I mean it's not like you can show your dad open source code and he can be like, "Oh, if you edit out this line it's totally a cheat." Anyways though any good hacker is a programmer and any good programmer is most likely pretty sharp and could probably hack (I mean at least if they program networkable apps). Sure it would be more profitable to just write solid code then to hack a free online app, and a given that you would get busted pretty quick if someone (even a group) using the same hacked app won more a handful of online Majors, but seriously people have wasted their time on less productive shit in the past. Basically an open source game with no server is just an invite for trouble. Hopefully for them this is just a midpoint to running on a server, which would actually be a smart move because if someone was to release a hack it would maybe show possible weakpoints in the program for a server based release, while at the same time opening the program to a wider audience.

Anyways in the end the best way to release such a product is to have an open source client, with a closed source server. This way you get the best of both worlds. Committed players/proggers would be able to edit the client side and make it more flashy, but at the same time the server handles all the info you don't want to players to see and remains secure. I mean in the end the client is the important part in such a program. You only have to get the server side straight once with a small team and then let the dedicated fans make the client flashy, implementing only the best, most solid mods in the official version. All this from someone who is currently in the preliminary process of planning an online game, so yeah, due to the way money would be generated for the company from my program, network security is the #1 concern.

Craze · Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 5647 Location: Indiana, U

Jorbes · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 309 Location: Netherland

Ok people, let's focus on feedback on the program instead of arguing if it's hackable (i'll hack it when it becomes a threat to GO/OPT Wink

j/k obv..... or not??)

Anyway, I've downloaded it, installed .net 3.5 and booted the sucker and here are some thoughts Mr Clark Kant can pass on to the programmer, as I dont really feel like finding / contacting him myself.

I was unable to find a fast (2 clicks) way to start a solitaire game, however, it seems to be possible to just start an 'online' game with just you as a player.

So, I load a deck, i must say, the loading is instantly, so that's a big plus. No delay for picture loadings and whatnot.

On to the table. I try to draw one of those world famous select boxes to see how the interface feels, but instead of getting a rectangle on the table, the whole table starts to move around, at least, some object i dont understand (because i dont know blue moon) moves around on it.

Now the functionality is minimal, even for an alpha release im sorry to say. So i try a right mouse click on the draw pile, something you all know as the library.

There are some options that popup, like draw to 6 cards, fills your hand to 6 cards and shows a message in the box, even when you already have 6 cards in hand... (if blabla < 6 then blabla else message('already got 6) ...maybe?) but OK

The draw... pops up a box asking how many cards i want to draw. I was unable to find a quick way to just draw a single card. (Draw to 6 is the default action, so this happens on doubleclick.. sadly) Clicking the X when asked for a number does not cancel the action, but simulates an OK press instead... comeon now programmer, what were you smoking?

The shuffle... I can only asume it works properly.

The view cards...(of the draw pile) pops up a window with all the cards layed out in a grid 6 cards wide.. (now what if a player uses a 200card deck...? But ok, not everyone has
heard of listboxes obviously)
This action does not show in the message box, so your opp has no idea you're checking your deck obv.... (who even needs hacks with this kind of programming? Wink

)
This same popup window has the annoying feature of turning semi transparent (alpha 50%) when being rightclicked on.

The zones arent implemented yet, neither are basic interface thingamadoodies for proper playing, like tap, attack and whatnot... where is the life meter?

The one (and only??) positive thing I have to say about it right now (im sure it will be better in the summer of 2009)
is that the graphics are very smooth, with a nice zooming function when moving over your hand (I might just steal that for OPT if you dont mind)

So, to conclude without having tested the stability of the network implementation.... NOT YET SUITABLE FOR USE!

I think in all his enthousiasm (wich i can understand) Mr Clark Kant has posted (spammed) the forums a bit to soon and this may really cause some serious damage to the popularity (was there any?) of this neat program, since the first impression is very important (I should know, GO was/is bashed on a regular basis also)

But.. dont let all this bring you down, just keep on going and going and going, even if it means losing your dayjob, wife, kids and life savings, it's all worth it!! (ok, not sure if i was being sarcastis there or whatever, it's been a long day)

Looking forward to seeing a usable beta some day (no sarcasm, really, really none!)

Laplie · League Staff Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 561

It is definitely possible to have a secure open source program that isn't easy to hack (without needing a server). There are many security problems with open source software, but they are all solvable. For example:

how do you keep the cards and the order of the cards private from both players?:

1) Player A encrypts each card then shuffles the library and passes the deck to player B,.

2) Player B then encrypts each card again then shuffles the library and passes the deck back to player A.

3) Player B then repeats the process with his own deck.

in order to see what a card is, player a must pass a card to player b, for him to decrypt, then player A decrypts the card seeing its text

This solves a bunch of problems such as:
What if player A doesn't shuffle his deck? Doesn't matter cause player B shuffles the deck
How do you prevent someone from looking at their cards? you need both players to decrypt the card.

etc, etc.

Open source doesn't mean insecure. PGP is open source and is used worldwide for security.

jods · Joined: 26 Jan 2008 Posts: 1

Hi, I'm jods. I am the coder behind OCTGN 2. This thread has been brought to my attention and I think I'd like to point out one thing or two.

Please take note that I am not watching those boards, so if you want to ask me questions you'd better come over to my blog.

The original poster was mostly correct, but made a few mistakes:
- The current release is the first alpha. It's not even a beta. There are many features still missing. E.g. the OP mentions drafting. Although this is planned, drafting is not available yet. Actually, the alpha has been artificially locked to play Blue Moon only.
- The program is indeed free and open-source. But there is no "encrypted version checking" built-in. This was the case with OCTGN 1.x, but not 2.0. You can grab the full sources, modify your client any way you like, and play against me with your modified client. There is no concept such as "closed open source".

This brings me to the most important point: cheating. Sorry for you guys, but an open-source program can be cheating-proof. You can play with MWS if you want to, but altough it's closed source cheats are available today. Keeping your sources closed "for security" is called "security by obscurity" and it's proven not to work. OCTGN 2.0 is secure by design and like all good, really secure systems I make no secret about its design. I am not going to spend my time explaining here how it works. If you really are interested in security you can come to my blog, or download the sources and see for yourself why you won't be able to cheat.

We don't advertise OCTGN 2.0 much right now because we don't think it's ready for prime time. But we honestly believe that when it comes out of beta it may very well be the best CCG client available. Stay tuned Wink

-jods

[EDIT]BTW, what Laplie wrote in the post just before mine is correct. This is - in essence - how OCTGN 2.0 works.

ClarkKant · Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 14

Thank you for posting jod.

I mistakenly thought that 2.0 uses the same security methods as 1.0. Guess I was wrong about that.

Regardless, to all the posters that have no clue about security whining about how the program is hackable, why don't get off the chair and actually do it and prove us wrong if it's so hackable.

CarterFarter · Joined: 08 Dec 2007 Posts: 8

Jorbes · Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 309 Location: Netherland

Craze · Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 5647 Location: Indiana, U

imafag · Joined: 24 Jan 2008 Posts: 2

ClarkKant · Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 14

Well said.

You would have to be an idiot to think that just because a program is open source, that it's easy to hack.

Linux is open source and any dev worth his salt would tell you that it's by far the most secure OS out there.

Now to water your mouth.

CarterFarter · Joined: 08 Dec 2007 Posts: 8

Craze · Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 5647 Location: Indiana, U

I'm srry but those pics don't look any better then what my MWS currently looks...

Laplie · League Staff Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 561

The key to this thread is:

ninguem · Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 21

yeah yeah i agree with you

NOT