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Can avoid fate counter counterspells?



 
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Noremac
Level 2 Judge


Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it can't. They're spells on the stack, they aren't permanents til their own the board.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A permanent is something in play. A spell is a card (or copy) on the stack. A counterspell normally only targets a spell on the stack, so you can't Avoid Fate it.

Note that there could be situations where you can use Avoid Fate against a counterspell. Cryptic Command with modes set to 'counter target spell' and 'bounce target permanent' or Suffocating Blast for instance.


Last edited by Hardtrack on Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mirage



Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you target a permanent with the first part of Cryptic Command and the second is countering a spell, the targetted spell would still be countered, as it is still a legal target. But you can avoid fate the targetted permanent.
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Y2Sky



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mirage wrote:
If you target a permanent with the first part of Cryptic Command and the second is countering a spell, the targetted spell would still be countered, as it is still a legal target. But you can avoid fate the targetted permanent.


Wrong. Avoid Fate counters the spell entirely, not just a part of the spell's resolution. If one of the targets of Cryptic Command is a permanent controlled by the person casting Avoid Fate, it is indeed a legal target for it.
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aldaryn



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Avoid Fate counters Cryptic Command, the entire spell.

What you are thinking of is that when Cryptic Command has two targets, if one becomes illegal because it is gone upon resolution, as long as it still has one legal target it resolves. However Avoid Fate -counters- the spell Cryptic Command (in its entirety).

You play Giant Growth on your Grizzly Bear, and you also have a Mogg Fanatic.
I play my Cryptic Command with modes - Counter your Giant Growth, return your Mogg Fanatic to your hand.

If you play Avoid Fate on my Command, which you can because I targetted the Fanatic, then your Giant Growth will resolve because my entire spell was countered.

If you sac your Mogg Fanatic in response to my Command, Command still has a legal target (Giant Growth) so it resolves and Giant Growth is countered.
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