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Mono Blue Bounce


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Kniver



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:57 pm    Post subject: Mono Blue Bounce Reply with quote

Decklist so far.. just made it..
Pretty consistent.. answer for most things
I've come across so far.. problem noticed is
if they accel too far.. especially when they get a 4-6 lands..
thinking of maybe adding shivan reefs.. and making room for
boom/bust to answer when they get multiple lands..
Here's the decklist.. feel free to offer suggestions:

// Lands
21 [CS] Snow-Covered Island

// Creatures
2 [LRW] Surgespanner
3 [CS] Heidar, Rimewind Master
3 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
4 [TSP] Riftwing Cloudskate

// Spells
3 [TSP] Wipe Away
2 [FUT] Venser's Diffusion
4 [10E] Boomerang
3 [FUT] Reality Strobe
4 [CS] Coldsteel Heart
4 [CS] Surging AEther
3 [LRW] Cryptic Command
4 [CS] Rune Snag

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [TSP] Ancestral Vision
SB: 2 [TSP] Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [10E] Evacuation
SB: 3 [CS] Commandeer
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Kniver



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I should run 3 desert and a urza factory?
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Heidar at 5 mana and a mana-intensive ability, Venser at 4, Surgespanner at 4 with a mana-intensive ability + mana open for counterspells and bounce including Command at 4, 21 lands are minimum 3 too few.

Ancestral Visions is either 4 main or 0 altogether. I think you need draw to maintain your bounce strategy long enough. This draw could well be Howling Mine, since the opponent have no use for the extra cards. For this I refer to Owling Mine, which had mostly the same strategy. Maybe Sudden Impact would be something for you?

Venser's Diffusion and Surging Aether are not good enough for this purpose. They do not return lands. (edit: and costs too much)

Let me suggest something like this:

4 Howling Mine
2 Heidar, Rimewind Master
3 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Riftwing Cloudskate

4 Sudden Impact
4 Boomerang
4 Wipe Away
4 Cryptic Command
3 Reality Strobe
4 Ancestral Vision

4 Shivan Reef
3 Shimmering Grotto (I prefer no cip tapped lands like Vivic Creek)
1 Urza's Factory
16 Snow-Covered Island

SB:

4 Unsummon
2 Evacuation
4 Cephalid Constable
3 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
2 Pithing Needle
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animefan8714



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main problem I see with this deck is that it has no clock to kill an opponent with while they are still trying to recover. Even if you bounce their land for a while, you're only beating down with 2-4 power tops. Unforunately, there's no Ebony Owl Netsuke to put your opponent on a real clock, in addition to Sudden Impact to finish the game.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aethersnipe is a 4/4. It is too bad that he does not hit lands. Maybe a few would not hurt. I think that Phyrexian Ironfoot and Rimefeather Owl would not hurt the list.
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Jairoe03



Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How consistent are you at pulling lands with only 21 lands? Even when I have 4 mana producing non-land permanents I still find myself having to run 23 lands.

If you're going to use snow-covered lands...might as well include 3-4 scrying sheets to filter make your deck run a little faster especially as a control deck should be no problem.

Think you can increase your bouncing potential with 4 Reality Strobes...Surging Aether for 4 mana seems kind of expensive and how often will you ripple Surging Aether. Sounds like a waste and better cards can be used instead. (Perhaps another cryptic command? A bigger creature? Brine Elemental? Vesuvan Shapeshifter? Might as well Pickles it up since your opponent will be continually trying to put his permanent back on board.)

Cold-Steel Heart seems rather useless in your deck...you might as well include more land. Lands are free to play and the basic ones come untapped. I don't think your deck needs the acceleration and if it does...you're better off with Mind Stone.

You're sb is somewhat questionable aside from Evacuation and Teferi and maybe Pithing Needle (but what exactly are you going to disable with Pithing Needle that you can't bounce/counter?). Ancestral Vision, i agree, is definitely a waste of a sideboard slot unless there are certain decks that you have a hard time bouncing and requiring to use THAT many cards alongside permanents that bounce (and Strobe) multiple times. What are you going to Commandeer that is going to require you to put it into your deck? Doesn't sound like its a card worth sideboarding since there aren't that many nonpermanent cards that are going to be worth Commandeering.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do like the idea for the deck. I still think that WUR Blink is better. Being able to bouce a Treetop Village on turn two while on the play is hot stuff for sure. I do think that it could make for a hard match vs Sonic Boom, Mana Ramp, or Elves (if they are a good player)

Only real hope is that game one you are on the play. Even then they need to drop a man-land on one and you need Visions on one and Boomerang on two. That makes the match about 60/40 for you on the play and about 45/55 for you on the draw before sideboarding.

I would side in Nix vs Sonic Boom it is an under used card that really helps in that match. Nix is a great counter to suspend and "Pact" cards.

Does anyone know how the Doran Rock and Tarmorack matches would be? I guess that they would be tough as they will side in Riftsweeper to stop your suspend spells.

Jace on the side as a four of seems like a no brainer. The worst match that you will have is Tarmorack and Doran Rock. They will side Riftsweeper to stop Visions and you will take them out for Jace. That gives you a small edge in game two.

I guess that I will stop with the advanced meta theory now. I hope that this helps a bit with the build.

SB:
4 Jace
3 Pithing Needle
3 Evacuation
3 Nix
2 Teferi

Good Luck! Have Fun!
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Jairoe03



Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's something I would run. Keeps most of your creatures, tend to want to not keep that many copies of legend creatures unless it has grandeur or something and Vesuvan Shapeshifter gives you tons of flexibility.

The sideboard are merely suggestions and not sure how well it would work, but figure if your opponent has a big creature, you can gain control of it rather than bounce it. 4 Evacuation in case your opponent gets out a protection from blue card (Akroma?). Remove Soul to keep you competitive against aggro decks, pact of negation for crucial counters if needed.

This deck may not have the rippling bounce card but this deck already sports 16 noncreature bounces, 4 that recur, 10 bouncing permanents , 4 permanents that can copy 6 of your bouncing permanents and Brine Elemental would be your smasher if not Shapeshifter for a big creature your opponent has or to keep the opponent tapped via constantly copying Brine Elemental.

Thats a total of 18 one-time bounce cards, 6 multiple bounce cards and Shapeshifter which can copy your one-time bounces for 4 more bounces...ideally...a grand total of 28 cards with bouncing potential out 36 total nonland cards in your main deck.

// Lands
4 [CS] Scrying Sheets
20 [CS] Snow-Covered Island

// Creatures
4 [TSP] Vesuvan Shapeshifter
4 [LRW] Surgespanner
2 [TSP] Brine Elemental
4 [TSP] Riftwing Cloudskate
2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant

// Spells
2 [TSP] Wipe Away
4 [TSP] Ancestral Vision
4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
4 [FUT] Reality Strobe
4 [10E] Boomerang
2 [FUT] Venser's Diffusion

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [10E] Evacuation
SB: 2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
SB: 4 [10E] Remove Soul
SB: 2 [FUT] Pact of Negation
SB: 3 [TSP] Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir


EDITED: -2 Heidar, Rimewind Master, +2 Surgespanner....Surgespanner is more powerful than I thought. Same Mana for Heidar while attacking. Also easier to copy with Vesuvan Shapeshifter than Heidar which is a legend. This has alot of potential.

-4 Rune Snags for +4 Ancestral Vision because I'm too busy bouncing to worry about Rune Snags anyway. Cryptic is always there to counter anything too crucial that you can't bounce. The deck definitely needed the draw too.


Last edited by Jairoe03 on Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:24 am; edited 5 times in total
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Thorns



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 863
Location: Rath

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frozen AEther has great synergy with the strategy you are taking. Bounce a land, and then watch it come into play tapped, then bounce it again!

I can also see Twiddle effects being useful too.
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thorns wrote:
Frozen AEther has great synergy with the strategy you are taking. Bounce a land, and then watch it come into play tapped, then bounce it again!

I can also see Twiddle effects being useful too.


frozen aether is too slow
and twiddle isn't t2 dumbass
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know the more I look at Surgespanner the better I think that it is for the deck. It would give the deck a softlock, if you can get them down to one or two things on the table.

So I guess that I will build a version of the deck and give it a shot.
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Kniver



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the input..
Coldsteel heart's are very helpful
as most of my deck requires UU in
mana costs.. mind stone doesn't provide
the blue... good sideboard idea's... ancestral
visions have replaced surging aether.. Heidar
is chosen over surgespanner cause in playtesting
I found surgespanner wasn't playing big part however
Heidar helps maintain lock.. in playtesting I was able to
keep opponent under 3 lands and when Heidar came out
I was able to bounce land a turn.. very consistent.. runesnags
stay for early game because opp doesn't usually have enough land
to pay for it after playing a 3 mana spell.. Here's the decklist improved:


// Lands
20 [CS] Snow-Covered Island
2 [CS] Scrying Sheets

// Creatures
2 [CS] Heidar, Rimewind Master
3 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
4 [TSP] Riftwing Cloudskate
3 [TSP] Vesuvan Shapeshifter

// Spells
3 [TSP] Wipe Away
4 [10E] Boomerang
3 [FUT] Reality Strobe
4 [CS] Coldsteel Heart
4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
4 [CS] Rune Snag
4 [TSP] Ancestral Vision

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [FUT] Pact of Negation
SB: 2 [PLC] Frozen AEther
SB: 3 [10E] Remove Soul
SB: 2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
SB: 3 [10E] Evacuation
SB: 2 [TSP] Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
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Kniver



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After more playtesting my spells aren't as consistent as before...
vesuvan shapeshifter has been taken out for two 3rd drop venser diffusion... handy on creature removal.. and stops suspend needed such as
lotus bloom from dragonstorm as well as rift bolt, greater gargadon from RB goblin, riftwing cloudskate from various decks, and a few others... and i have few other 3 drops... other vesuvan traded for a land.. debating on whether or not use desert's against aggro 1/1's
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Kniver



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deck is now running well.. is consistent..
I think it has alot of potential.. needs some
playtesting and a little tweaking.. but I think it's
tournament material
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would seriously consider taking out the Hearts for 2 more lands and then you would have 2 slots you could use for something more useful. I cannot think of a situation where you would want to use the 2nd turn to accelerate mana. Again, Howling Mine suits you extremely well. Try it.
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