Fodder Launch VS Bounce

sf111 · Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 1

So what's going on is my friend and I are playing a casual game of magic, and we've gotten down to the last turn and we run into a serious problem that no one in the room can solve:

I have five health left and he has 7 cards left in his library, and he uses Fodder Launch, sacrificing his 1/1 Red Goblin token on my Sygg, River Guide, now, if I were to use Sygg's ability on himself for Pro-Black, would that save me? It's believed it would save Sygg but kill me. So instead i propose to tap my Surgespanner for my Drowner of Secrets' ability to mill his library for one, pay two for Surgespanner's ability and bounce Sygg, removing the target for Fodder Launch. Now, if the target for Fodder Launch is removed, does Fodder Launch just fizzle and have no effect, going to the graveyard? Or does he get to pick a new target? Or does Fodder Launch go back to his hand?

Halp!

-sf111

Craze · Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 5325 Location: Indiana, U

if you made Sygg pro black ir to Fodder Launch then it wouldn't kill you, because Fodder wouldn't have a target and instead would fizzle.

ronjeremyjr · Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 40

Right, Fodder Launch would be countered due to lack of a legal target. This means the whole spell is countered, and your Sygg would live and you would take no damage.

sc4rs · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 389

In both instances, the spell would fizzle. If a spell has only one target (which, if you read Fodder Launch carefully, it does, because the second part says "that creature's controller") and that target becomes illegal at any point between the time the spell is cast and the spell resolves, then the spell will fizzle entirely and do nothing.

For example, if he tried to Repeal Sygg instead, and you either gave it pro-blue or bounced it yourself, he wouldn't get to draw a card from Repeal. Same deal.

Gorbadoc · Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 56

sc4rs · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 389

Whenever a creature changes control or leaves play, it is treated as a new object. Therefore, the spell would still fizzle, as it has "lost" its original target, because it sees the creature that just came under your control from your opponent's control as a different creature.

The same thing happens with Momentary Blink, which is why spells that target creatures will fizzle if you Blink the creature, despite the fact that the creature is a legal target when the spell is cast AND when the spell resolves.

You are correct that the game only checks for legality twice. The spell won't fizzle until the targets are checked the second time and it doesn't see the original object in play. Thus, you can Remand your spell that would be countered upon resolution to save it.

Please don't confuse people with an incorrect interpretation of the rules. If you're starting a rules answer with "I think," look it up or keep it to yourself. You'll just confuse people if you're wrong.

Gorbadoc · Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 56

I did look it up. The "I think" was because the procedure for a spell going through doesn't explicitly say that a target can toggle validity; it just lists two times when you have to check.

And you're wrong; change of control does not reset a creature's status. Of course, many abilities and effects have the caveat that a creature must have been under your control since the beginning of your turn (aka summoning sickness), but that's a different rule.

ant900 · Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 2470 Location: somewhere

Avata · Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 356

Edit: NM, ant beat me to it.

Acid_Christ · Joined: 28 Aug 2004 Posts: 411

I believe if the Launch said something like "target creatures gets -5/-5 and (this) deals 5 damage to target player" you would have died because it has two targets (only needs one to resolve). Thats probably why they thought you would be dead.

Urza_ · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 5

Acid_Christ, it really doesn't hurt to read a card before posting a reply.

And because Fodder Launch has only one target it will fizzle if that target becomes illegal at resolution.

lennin · Guest

wats wrong with wat acid posted

tcook589 · Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 44

if you read the card, you'd know.

Fodder Launch - 3B
Tribal Sorcery - Goblin

As an additional cost to play Fodder Launch, sacrifice a Goblin. Target creature gets -5/-5 until end of turn. Fodder Launch deals 5 damage to that creature’s controller.

The spell only has one target. If the target is not legal when the spell resolves, then the spell is countered.

ant900 · Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 2470 Location: somewhere

Thorns · Joined: 16 Aug 2006 Posts: 779 Location: Rath