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GUB Finkel-'Goyf-Grow


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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: GUB Finkel-'Goyf-Grow Reply with quote

So I have been playing a GUB Grow list now that the Lorwyn spoiler is out. Have been really testing QD in standard. I must say that it is strong vs decks without a lot of spot remova. The issue that I run into is Split Second and Mogg Fanactic. As you can not really sb vs that other then Teferi, I made the choice to go with just Pithing Needle vs Mogg Fanactic and other things like man-lands. I have though about main decking Teferi. This would give me some time in the mid-late game to grow the QD out of range of Sudden Shock/Sudden Death.

As for the matchups I need to test more vs RG 'Goyf 'n Gargadon, Teferi-Shroud Faeries, Tarmorack, and Teachings. I think that they will be the biggest decks. WWur Aggro may be strong as well.

I really need to up the main deck hate for Tarmorack as this is a big deck to beat. RG 'Goyf 'n Gargadon is also a hard match up. I may end up cuting the Aeon for Quagnoth. I think the move to main deck Quagnoth would be a huge move to help the match.

I really need some more help to tune the list, I may have missed some weakness in the deck.

So here is the deck.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
10 [TSP] Island (1)
7 [TSP] Forest (1)
7 [TSP] Swamp (1)

// Creatures
4 [10E] Quirion Dryad
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [TSB] Shadowmage Infiltrator
2 [TSB] Mystic Snake
2 [PLC] Aeon Chronicler

// Spells
4 [TSP] Ancestral Vision
4 [FUT] Mystic Speculation
4 [FUT] Delay
4 [TSP] Think Twice
4 [LOR] Eyeblight's Ending

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [LOR] Thoughtseize
SB: 4 [CS] Deathmark
SB: 4 [10E] Cruel Edict
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle

I know you got to ask why Mystic Speculation vs Ponder. I went with Mystic Speculation for the buyback. So far it has worked out very well for the deck.
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Brutaum



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The deck looks good. But why would you want to buyback a sorcery with Goyfs in the deck? Ponder ftw!
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Brutaum



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, the mana base seems very bad... You should fix the lands.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I would do anything to the mana I would swap some basic lands for Terramorphic Expanse.

I can dig for a land with Mystic Speculation. Also the buyback from Mystic Speculation works with the grow theme of the deck.

I am 50/50 on Anciestal Visions. It seems that it is only good on turn 1,2, or 3. Any other thoughs on hand refill?
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KEnder



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you need to avoid split second and mogg, you can run will bender so. they will answer to that problems.
I really think mystic speculation is bad. it doesn't help to manage board or something. If you want a buyback spell, try Spell burst.
Ancestral vision means you don't need a solution fast. If you draw it at turn 7 or 8, it is a dead draw. you may consider Ponder, for fast draw, Foresee, for huge digging.
In fact, I don't really see how do you manage the board, you got 6 counter 4 removal.
More of that I don't really see why we would play dryad in T2 at this moment. there is oblivion ring which will be played in almost all white side, terror, pact (for teeg) and so many removal that will kill your huge dryad that will ruin your play :/
Dryad is great in leagcy because it is not a aggro format.

KEnder
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DaShakAttack



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do you play aeon chronicler? that card is horrible in your deck.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can Needle lots of good stuff. Man-lands are a good target as well as Terramorphic Expanse, comes into play triggers, Storm spells, and on. So the needle stays in the sb.

I would like to keep the deck midrange. Finkel has been a strong point in the deck. If he gets online that is almost all of the draw that I need. I am going to try Ponder out to see how it works in the list
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with Kender when it comes to the good answers to big targetable creatures in new standard.

There Are Always Answers (tm)

The problem is to get them. And to play them at the right time. You can say whatever you want about running 40 1cc and 2cc flyers in a deck, but unless the opponent is faster or draws one of his 4 Wrath/damnations, those tiny little pests will win the game. I am not arguing for running such a deck, it would suck in most matchups, but if the defence of the opponent is based on a few targeted removals and wrath, then he would _absolutely need_ it every game.

So is it with a huge Quirion Dryad or Tarmogoyf. You need one of the cards you mentioned: Terror, Slaughter Pact, Oblivion Ring, or a few others, to deal with it. A deck will not run all of them. Maybe 4, max 8 in the deck. And you need to draw one of them, or possibly two or three.

The point here is that if you force the opponent to deal with what you play, and to react to what you do, it is to your benefit. The same goes for a control deck, actually. A control deck that forces the opponent to adjust to what you do, and play around the cards you use will do infinitely better than one who _only_ reacts to what the other player does.

Quirion Dryad and Tarmogoyf are two powerful creatures. With blue draw for fodder and card advantage, the opponent will have to deal with them, and that is easier said than done.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can Needle lots of good stuff. Man-lands are a good target as well as Terramorphic Expanse, comes into play triggers, Storm spells, and on. So the needle stays in the sb.

I would like to keep the deck midrange. Finkel has been a strong point in the deck. If he gets online that is almost all of the draw that I need. I am going to try Ponder out to see how it works in the list
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lennin
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you cant needle come into play abilites or storm spells, learn rules
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it was really late when I posted last night. I was wrong about Storm and comeis in to play, I stand by the fact that you can Needle the other stuff.

404. Triggered Abilities•
404.1 A triggered ability begins with the word "when," "whenever," or "at." The phrase containing one of these words is the trigger condition, which defines the trigger event.

It looks like Trickbind will need a home on the sb.
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Clatanoff



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at least run harmonize over chronicaler. and run expanses.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tested peek. Think Twice is better due to flashback. So it digs for two cards and two spells for QD.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here is the most up to date list. I wish that I would have made it into the trial today.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
6 [LOR] Island (1)
4 [LOR] Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 [LOR] Secluded Glen
4 [10E] Yavimaya Coast
3 [LOR] Forest (1)
3 [LOR] Swamp (1)

// Creatures
4 [10E] Quirion Dryad
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [TSB] Shadowmage Infiltrator
4 [TSB] Mystic Snake

// Spells
4 [FUT] Mystic Speculation
4 [TSP] Think Twice
4 [CS] Rune Snag
4 [LOR] Nameless Inversion
4 [LOR] Eyeblight's Ending

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CS] Deathmark
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [PLC] Damnation
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

those 16 creatures are enough?

I am not a fan of Mystic Snake. With all your card digging and draw, I would suggest removing them to do one of two things:

A. Speeding up the deck

B. More lategame power
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