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| Did this convince you of the fact of creation? |
| Yes, you have enlightened me. |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
| No, I was already convinced of it's clear truth. |
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5% |
[ 1 ] |
| No, I am too brainwashed by evolutionists. |
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83% |
[ 15 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
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TugaChampion
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 222
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 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| lol penis! |
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Thorns
Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Rath
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| TugaChampion wrote: | | lol penis! |
If there's a place for that kind of behavior, it's definately here.
Why is it so important to argue something where either side can't bring up solid facts and proofs? |
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Arcanis
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| RichardDWade wrote: | Here is my take. I grew up as a protestant Christian going to church every Sunday, taking communion and even ringing the morning bell. I always considered both sides of the argument but could never truly decide which I believed in, even though I was taught about blind faith and that I would go to hell otherwise (nice scare tactics). Soon after my confirmation and baptism I turned 18, was allowed to do what I wanted, and haven't stepped foot in a church since. Over the years I've realized that though I don't know if there is a "god" I have come to believe that Christianity has been bastardized over the years to control the general public. Making them conform to stupid laws such as not being able to buy alcohol on Sundays... I find it very hard to believe in something I have not witnessed myself and my only evidence is a coded history book and what people who lived in an even more repressed time than I do tell me.
As for Darwinism, excellent theory. No real way to prove it yet, but excellent and most believable so far. Until we have about a million years of recorded natural history behind us, I think trying to argue in favor is moot.
So my suggestion to everyone who can't decide for themselves, is to live peacefully, don't take more than you need and try to do the right thing whenever possible.
And as for you, naifler, you come off as very holier than thou, you have a very methodically nasty tone to your articles, and in my presumption, have never left the small bible belt state you live in to go explore the world and its other beautiful religions and cultures.
Edit: I just read the poll, and it disgusts me. "Brainwashed" huh? How about " I have read the evidence produced to me, and have decided that evolution best fits what I CHOOSE to believe". And yes, you CAN choose what you believe.
http://www.venganza.org/
http://www.subgenius.com/
^ some links for those who haven't CHOSEN what to believe yet. |
oh god, i am so you lol |
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illus
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| I am saving my Christianity for when I fuck up and go to jail and find God. Although Islam I hear is miiiiiighty irresistible in the joint.... |
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tcook589
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:55 am Post subject: |
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naifler and people like him sicken me. You blindly believe in something that someone told you to believe, how does that make you any better than any body who believes in evolution? Because you have "God" on your side?
I don't feel like arguing in a debate which seriously seems like a joke. I concur with RichardDWade almost completely. |
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marten2
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Don't Believe In The Hoax Of Evolution, Part II |
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| naifler wrote: | Don't Believe In The Hoax Of Evolution, Part II
The Theory of Evolution:
As the title states, evolution is nothing but a theory, weak and unfounded, belief in this concept is nothing but irrationality, contrary to basically every piece of evidence that science has put forward in the latest decades and behemently denied by respectable researchers. |
this of course is true for every theory existing about how everything became like it is now. we just can'y know how it went and that makes practically every theory (including the religions) irrational. the sentence about the evidence that is put forward against it isn't quite true either since there are also respected researchers who think differently about the proof (this always happens with "proof" for things we can never know for sure).
| Quote: | | Not only is this a blatant falsehood, but it also is insulting, stating we are nothing but a monkey's grandsons and granddaughters, insinuating we are merely the bestial sidekicks of gorillas, comparable to mindless pools of goo. |
who are you to say it is insulting to state that some monkeys are related to us (as a species). you live on this earth, which has existed for a couple of billion years, for about just 80 years and you become arrogant about you and your species being superior. there are no living beings who can rightfully claim they are superior than other species, because the only thing you do here on earth is making sure your species doesnt stop existing. amoebas succeed in that as good as you and me, so we are not superior to amoebas. in the same way we are not superior than any species succeeding at existing
not actually an arguement for creationism being true; the truth isn't found by democracy
take this back. you have your right to believe you are right about creationism and maybe you are actually right, but this is just wrong.
genocide, and especially genocide against the jews has existed like forever.
I know it was done by the Romans and it was probably done before, but I dont know that for sure. it is also done by the Christians (yes, your holy Christians who are always right). all of this before Darwin and others came with their theory.
the jews have always been hated and I don't know why, but it certainly wasn't caused by evolution theory.
please note I am just arguing just for fun. I know I can't accomplish anything and I also know that I can't deny you altogether, for you actually might be right.
I expect you not to try to make me a christian, because I have lost all fait in the bible. Just belive what you want to believe and argue just for the sake and the fun of arguing
(On a side note, since this is quite a long post I don't want to check for grammar and spelling, please don't flame me for that, unless you really don't understand what I am saying) |
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Mke410
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| I must say I really hate people like you as you contradict yourself a lot. If you believe in god and creationism then you must also realize god gave man the power of free will. Thus you are going against god saying "That is wrong. You should believe this." Because you are telling people to not make there own decisions. So back off, believe what you want, as I am sure many people agree with you. On the other hand there are many who disagree with you. So if you don't believe what they do, then don't deal with them. Personally my beliefs govern me, but I don't press my issue of my beliefs out on other people telling them to believe what I do. Everyone has a choice to believe what they want. So let people decide for themselves. And be happy that by your beliefs you think what is right and how things happened. So in conclusion don't worry about other people and what they believe as you really cant force them into your way of thinking, well you can, but then its just a cult. |
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hawkeye1542
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 207
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| i love people who use the bible as a blazing sword in support of their blind, idiotic beliefs and yet fail to recognize a single discrepancy or incongruancy in the Bible (if which there are too many to count)....if the Bible is the word of God and the infallible truth, how is it that all 4 gospels tell different stories of the events reagarding jesus' life and death?? wait, let me guess, u're gonna come back w/ some bunk comment about how they actually arent different at all and u just have to look deeper and understand the true meaning to see that they're all the same. religious fanatics are the worst, absolute worst, part of humanity. |
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Devinc05
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Well let me start by saying that I'm agnostic and have no quarrel with either side but in my opinion the bible was just a book written for control and I believe because of obvious observations it was done by male supremecists to raise the level of societies behavior and moral standards in a unifying, uniting, and therefore addictive following fashion. Let me conclude by saying touche to them because they did a very good job and covered nearly every corner and questionable theory.
"As intended they have become tame sheep to the invisible shepherd." -=-Me-=- |
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jawsthehobo
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Now, I know this his a joke. I have to admit, I didn't read the evidence, because I know that something like 99% of scientists believe in evolution. Whateveer his evidence is is extremly biased and wrong. But, if it isn't a joke, I have to say, its your own belief, and I reespect that. I believe in evolution and am pretty religious, and in my religion, we are split down the middle on evolution being true and evolution not being true. The half that don't believe in it are a lot like the half that do, so its not like it really makes you a different person, unless you are aethiest and still don't beleive in evolution, then you are an idiot. As far as I know, every single bit of scientific evidence points towards evolution, so you better have a religious reason to not believe in it or you are so dumb. |
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thedarkness
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: |
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First and foremost, I will say this:
This is NOT a counter-argument. I do not debate with extremists or fanatics, because they only speak out in places like Magic-League, places full to bursting with atheism and agnosticism, to try and convert the nonbelievers. I myself have been an atheist since the age of six, when I renounced the possibility of a single, supreme higher power, replacing it instead with a much more rational and supported theory of utter chaos.
Now, on to the point. A “theory” will remain a theory until proven beyond the shadow of a doubt to be a fact. However, no one in their right mind would recognize anything as a theory if it were totally unfounded. This is why evolution, despite the fact that there are plentiful laboratory tests (not dating tests, but I’ll get to that), historical, geographical, and geological evidence to support it, remains only a theory: it cannot be proven on such an enormous scale as would have to be supported for the population of the entire world to have evolved from the most basic of organisms.
Creationism on the other hand has only one “reliable,” and I am reluctant to call it such, source: the Bible. How can you have such blind faith in the words of a book that, a mere 700 years past, was in the hands of a manipulative “organization” of the likes of the Church of England? They were not interested in the well-being of the people, or anything short of taking their money. But that all aside, they were also the *only accepted scribes of the good book.* If it wasn’t written by the Holy Mother Church, it was burned, even if it was, word for word, what the Church had written. I spent a long time wondering about that while I was in school, and I reached this conclusion: the book you follow so blindly today is NOT the same book that was written in years past. I am of the opinion that the Church of England, given their numerous motives to and their ability to as well, *changed parts of the Bible to suit their wishes.*
But I won’t try to prove that theory, because I don’t practice theology, and I honestly don’t know enough about the Bible or its history to play one. However, my knowledge of science is more than sufficient to disprove your tasteless articles on the falsity of the supported and the truth of the unproven.
| Quote: | In other words, you don’t just accept a laboratory date without question. It’s not the last word on the age of something. You only accept the date if it agrees with what you already think it should be.
And that is what we have been saying all along.10 That is why we won’t accept any date that contradicts the eyewitness evidence of human history recorded in the Bible. Such contradictory dates can’t be right.
In short, the dates are wrong because they are based on wrong assumptions. For example, the carbon-14 method does not account for the disruption of the carbon balance during the Flood some 4,500 years ago.11 The uranium methods do not make the correct assumptions about the initial conditions of the samples or about the effects of changing environmental conditions through time. The luminescence dates have the same problem. |
I’m not going to defend the current dating methods, as most of them will produce different results on the same specimen under the same conditions. However, I have several problems with this particular passage from your silly article.
It’s true, it isn’t advised to accept the lab work if it doesn’t fit the known. However, the biblical definition of “the known” differs greatly from any other that I have seen or heard, and here is a perfect example: “eyewitness evidence of human history recorded in the Bible.”
eye•wit•ness - Show Spelled Pronunciation[n. ahy-wit-nis, ahy-wit-nis; v. ahy-wit-nis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who actually sees some act, occurrence, or thing and can give a firsthand account of it: There were two eyewitnesses to the murder.
–verb (used with object)
2. to view with one's own eyes: to eyewitness a murder.
So, if I understand this correctly, that means that the Bible is recorded from firsthand knowledge of the events that came to pass. In short, Noah MUST have had all of the ORIGINAL documents up to the time of the alleged Flood for any of it to be logically considered accurate. But as I understand it, the Bible was not actually comprised of paper at all in those times, or for that matter, even firsthand knowledge. Now, I could be wrong, but if there were only two humans on the whole of the planet for 40 days and 40 nights, and there was no written record of history to speak of, and most importantly, if those two people who were the only human life on Earth at the time *did not write that part themselves,* how are we supposed to validate it? And even if they had, how do we know that it was changed for some bizarre reason by the Church of England in the middle ages? Or before then? Or hell, even AFTER then?
| Quote: | As a teacher, I found that whenever I taught the students what I thought were the ‘facts’ for creation, then their other teacher would just re-interpret the facts. The students would then come back to me saying, ‘Well sir, you need to try again.’
However, when I learned to teach my students how we interpret facts, and how interpretations are based on our presuppositions, then when the other teacher tried to reinterpret the facts, the students would challenge the teacher’s basic assumptions. Then it wasn’t the students who came back to me, but the other teacher! This teacher was upset with me because the students wouldn’t accept her interpretation of the evidence and challenged the very basis of her thinking.
What was happening was that I had learned to teach the students how to think rather than just what to think. What a difference that made to my class! I have been overjoyed to find, sometimes decades later, some of those students telling me how they became active, solid Christians as a result. |
“What was happening was that I had learned to teach the students how to think rather than just what to think.”
Is that not the very definition of the “brainwashing” to which you seem so vehemently opposed if it conflicts with your views?
Anyway, that is just an aside.
All the evidence is ours to view as we choose, but the fact that Christians choose not to inspect any of it on their own, placing their stock solely in the words of the Bible, does not mesh well with trying to cut down everything that other people have actually worked to understand. I am under the impression that were a Christian to search *in earnest* for evidence that proves the theory of evolution, they would find exactly what has already been found. The only problem is that this very search would be to renounce Christianity, since blasphemy and faith are kind of opposite ends of the spectrum.
I find myself getting off track. How about this. 1 Corinthians 15:6, the passage wherein hundreds of “eyewitnesses” (there’s that damned word again) saw the Lord Jesus rise from the dead. Maybe one of them caught on and would like to replicate the act so we can ask them? Unless that happens, there is no RELIABLE proof that Christ existed, and since all of this would have happened long before any of us were around, I don’t want to hear anyone saying, “But the Bible said they saw it, so it must be true!”
I could go on about this for days, but I think I'll just end with this.
Did you see it? Any of it? Has anyone reading this seen anything even remotely akin to the miracles mentioned in the Bible?
Anyone at all?
Thought not. |
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Amaterasu
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:37 am Post subject: |
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You have got to be kidding me! why does this show up everywhere?
Frankly, I am atheist all the way. I don't need god(s) to live my life, to guide me, or w/e else they're used for. As far as I'm concerned, they're useless.
And concerning the beginning of the world, I don't really care. I'm here now. How the world began isn't of much importance to me. |
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Black_Elf
Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Serious, this is Nightflare if you take him seriously you're all idiots. Every single person who posted in this topic seriously FAILS and just owned themselves.
Oh yeah! Jesus Saves! |
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TofuBoy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
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You try to put up a shield for your beliefs by using the names of scientists that choose to believe the same theory of creation that you believe. The fact is, just because some researcher says something is true doesn't make it any more correct.
From what I understand you believe the scriptures as dictated by God are the only real truth. And that "The Bible the infallible word of God," (note change to The Bible, the infallible word of God," it just feels more grammatically correct) are the general rules to which we should abide by. Question: Where do the words in the Bible come from? Surely it is the mouth of "God". Meaning some "God" dictated someone to essentially write down that what he says is the truth as he proceeds to tell the writer tales of, in my opinion, dubious nature. Would you accept these words if some unknown approached you in the street, and then started spewing out false nonsense from his lips. The answer is, of course, no.
NOTE: I am aware I have a lack of debating skills and what I just wrote wasn't exactly of high quality. My friend on the other hand can debate to a high degree and at some point in this forum, I will post his arguments.
P.S I noticed a lot of comma splicing in your first post, Naifler. |
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warwizard87
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
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JESUS SAVES..................................the rest of you take full damage
i am so sick of this argument i give up on it, have your faith i don't care its not my llife or my belive system its yours DON'T PUSH IT ON ME fucking idiot, Christians are notorious through the ages preaching brotherhood and peace when not in power but once they have power they force religion upon those who don't have power. hypocritical to the extreme, oh btw you can replace Christian with Muslim, Judaism, or what ever version of religion you want to they all do the same.
Give me that old time religion you know pagan the religions that developed in the Mediterranean before any of those others] read a non-biased history for once
btw i did vote for ' yes you enlighented me" but just becouse you sure did enlighten me about how brainwashed you are
good day sirs |
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